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Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

8642 messages,  Last post on May 20, 2013 at 10:18 PM

You are in the Subaru Legacy & Outback Forum.

What is this discussion about? Subaru Legacy, Subaru Outback, Wagon

Messages Page 599 of 865

#5975 of 8642 Should I stay with Subaru or not? by kodiakrocks

Apr 16, 2006 (10:46 pm)

So, my 1998 Outback has apparently given up the ghost - I am a little disappointed as it only has 113k on it (I've been religious about all the major services and pretty good on the oil changes esp. as it got older). Apparently the head gasket is on its way out (discovered by dealer, confirmed by a trusted mechanic) - coolant reservoir shows dirty coolant though the car still drives great (21 mpg) and no hesitation.
Trusted mechanic tells me either replace the engine and short block for $5k or ditch the car. I'm thinking ditch the car - the car is aged, other parts will start to go bad on it (will need new tires in another 5-10k) might as well start anew.
 
I'd almost go with a Subie again except for the fact that trusted mechanic tells me that every other week there's a subie in his shop (he specializes in toyota)requiring this work. I know two people personally who had to drop in new engines into their Outback/Legacies...before 100k?!! I don't really want to set myself up for failure again. Any thoughts?
 
I was also told that older Subies (over 75k) burn oil, mine sure did. Is this common? Is the engine/head gasket problem also as common as my experience/my mechanic says?
 
Despite this, I am still reconsidering buying a new Outback (2006) - it's just so darn affordable compared to others out there ( currently comparing to RAV4 and Highlander Hybrid - pricey but attractive for someone moving into their 40s!). I've also really enjoyed how it has handled in snow, mud and off-road (I was in Death Valley during last spring's flower explosion and because the campsites were all full, the ranger recommended we drive up one of the canyon roads and camp up there after he gave a rave review on the Outback vs. most SUVs on such roads! Hard to turn your back on a Ranger's opinion!!!) I also can't complain about maintenance, all I ever replaced was the radiator - everything else (tires, spark plugs etc) I consider normal wear and tear. I think it all came out to about $9k over 8 years - not bad in my opinion.
 
BUT the new Outback doesn't get much better mpg than my current one (a bit of a disappointment really why isn't subaru on the hybrid bandwagon??) AND believe it or not, it has worse pick-up than my 98??!! How is that even possible?? CR also says that the new Outback is sluggish, so it isn't just my imagination. I would be okay with slower pick-up if it had commesurate increase in mpg but it doesn't (making the Highlander Hybrid look real appealing). Lastly, I am very concerned about exposing myself to the possibility of having to replace the engine earlier than 100K.
 
I am tempted by Toyota given its legendary dependability, but the Hybrid is a bit of a risk (not to mention a 10k+ investment) and I am unsure of its off-road capability (primarily badly eroded fire roads). But I love that it is a hybrid (though the mpg isn't what I would like that's the trade-off for the space and ground clearance vs the Prius) - the body style could stand to be cooler in my opinion!
 
Does anyone have any input on any or all of these issues? I'd appreciate it, I am tearing my hair out trying to figure out what way to go...Subie or Toyota??! Don't even mention the RAV4 - useless without the V6 and no real numbers on mpg with it anyways, but I am guessing below 20 and I'll be doggoned if I go with a new car with WORSE gas mileage than my current one - I mean oil is a finite resource folks! The Forrester is an interesting option BUT the seats are so incredibly uncomfortable I can't imagine driving for 5 hours to Bishop for climbing in it!
 
Thanks!
K

#5976 of 8642 Re: Should I stay with Subaru or not? [kodiakrocks] by tkanic

Apr 17, 2006 (5:09 am)

Replying to: kodiakrocks (Apr 16, 2006 10:46 pm)
Just a note about hybrids in general. Their mpg's are usually higher in city then highway. If you do mostly highway driving the advantage is greatly diminished - to the point that it will never be worth it IMHO. I don't know about off roading with them.
 
As for Subie and hybrids, they are manufacturing advanced batteries that Toyota will be using in their hybrids (again IIRC), and I think I recall seeing a subie prototype hybrid, which is sort of like a mini Legacy, not a impresa however, the styling is much more Legacy like.
 
For power, the turbo seems to have more then enough, but the non-turbo could use more, but with AWD and 27 mpg (in my experence w/ a 05i) it's really hard to ask for more power at that level of efficency.
 
The seats w/ the 05 OBi are also not the most comfortable, but your butt finally adapts to it (not the other way around), I'm just glad I'm not overweight a much wider butt and I see it could be very unconfortable.
 
If you are worried about oil being a finite resource then you should consider a flex fuel car and see if you can get E85 near you, subies are not flex fuel cars, at least the 05's are not, but I beleive that they can be converted to it, I have heard a suggestion that larger fuel injectors w/o 'telling' the onboard computer would do it, but if you want to be green, might as well start as you mean to go on and buy one right from the start.

#5977 of 8642 Re: Should I stay with Subaru or not? [kodiakrocks] by stevenm1

Apr 17, 2006 (10:09 am)

Replying to: kodiakrocks (Apr 16, 2006 10:46 pm)
We currently have 3 Subarus (95 Impreza - 126K miles, 97 Impreza - 93K miles, 98 Legacy - 187K miles), and they have been very reliable. Aside from the usual maintenance items (clutch changes, drive axle boots, front main engine seals, timing belts, hoses, water pump), I have not had to replace anything unusual. The high mileage engine in the 98 Legacy is a bit noisy compared to the others, but it still runs good and doesn't use or leak any oil. We purchased all of them used, and the total price we paid for of all three is less than the cost of one new one. They definitely have been cost effective for us to own. Have you considered a used engine from a wrecking yard? That should run about $800-1200 depending on mileage.

#5978 of 8642 Re: Should I stay with Subaru or not? [kodiakrocks] by gearhead4

Apr 17, 2006 (10:44 am)

Replying to: kodiakrocks (Apr 16, 2006 10:46 pm)
I appreciate your indecision. I would like bring up a few points.
Your Outback has the old Dual Overhead Cam engine. Outbacks have been propelled by single overhead cam engines since 2000. I have heard the SOHC design is more reliable (but Subaru recommends using their cooling system additive to help preserve the head gaskets).
Regarding the new Outback vs Toyota, I can't say anything bad about Toyotas. My wife's 04 Camry has been a gem.
My 06 Outback 2.5i AT is only a month old, but is incredibly smooth riding. I have been averaging 24 MPG. My 05 Legacy 2.5i (5spMT)averaged about 28 MPG, so I am a little disappointed with the Outback MPG (I think it's largely due to the auto trans). The Legacy also performed better with it's 5 speed manual trans.
The hybrids are intriguing. I know two people with Prius' s. They both love the cars and are very happy with the MPG. The Highlander won't do as well, and the price is very high (at least $6000 higher than an Outback). Even with gas at $3/gallon it will take well over 100,000 miles of fill-ups to make up for the incremental cost of the hybrid.
If you are considering the RAV4, you should compare it to a Forester, not an Outback. The Forester is less expensive and performs better (quicker and more efficient) than the Outback.
I figure we won't see a Subaru Hybrid here in the US for at least 18 months. They say they're are working on it, but seem to be far away from having one ready for sale.
Subaru is currently offering $2000 rebates on the Outback and Forester. That may make your decision a little easier.
 
Let us know which way you go.
 
Jim (gearhead4)

#5979 of 8642 Re: Should I stay with Subaru or not? [kodiakrocks] by xwesx

Apr 17, 2006 (11:18 am)

Replying to: kodiakrocks (Apr 16, 2006 10:46 pm)
I'd hardly call the head gasket problem you are having with your '98 a car-killer and I certainly would not recommend complete replacement of the engine as a fix. The head gasket failure is a mix of poor design and age. I think that you probably would have had this failure even if there were only 50K on the car today. Heck, at this point, I'd buy your car for dirt and fix it myself for a '98 with only 113K! But, transferring to the replacement topic since that seems to be where you have headed:
 
Are you looking at auto or manual? I drove an '06 Ltd auto and it sure had a lot more pep than my '96 auto! If you are driving a decent mix of highway and city, you should get better than 21 mpg out of a new 2.5. I am sure you must have been getting better than that when your 98 was newer. I was getting a solid 27 mpg out of my '96 2.5 for the first year I had it, and it was at 83K when I purchased in 2000. If it is burning oil, then your compression surely is not as good as it once was and therefore mileage will suffer. Once broken in, I would expect 24-25 quite consistently out of a base '06 Outback.
 
In the end, it should be whatever fits your needs best, but do not allow the current head gasket problem to factor too heavily against Subaru as you will most likely not have that problem again with either a new one or your '98 should you opt for gasket replacement.

#5980 of 8642 Re: Should I stay with Subaru or not? [xwesx] by tkanic

Apr 17, 2006 (1:44 pm)

Replying to: xwesx (Apr 17, 2006 11:18 am)
My 05 Legacy 2.5i (5spMT)averaged about 28 MPG, so I am a little disappointed with the (one month old) Outback MPG (I think it's largely due to the auto trans).
 
More likely due to the break-in, When I got my 2.5i I got low miliage, it creapt up to the 27 over 10,000 miles - yes it took that long.

#5981 of 8642 Re: Should I stay with Subaru or not? [kodiakrocks] by kens

Apr 17, 2006 (4:16 pm)

Replying to: kodiakrocks (Apr 16, 2006 10:46 pm)
As a Subaru owner, I'm going to give you the biased answer of staying with Subaru.
 
Why?
 
As for your engine concerns, the Phase I DOHC engine used in your 98 Outback has gone through a few major revisions since it's inception. The headgasket problem primarily afflicted the earlier models (Phase I) and earlier Phase II models. Although Subaru never did a recall, they were very aware of this problem and have addressed it in later designs.
 
As for the pick-up, did you drive a 2006 model? The OB gained quite a bit of weight with the 2000 model change and then lost some in 2005. I'm not sure where it stands relative to the 98 model, but it may still be a tad heavy. Also, are you taking into account that any 2006 you test drive is still not broken in and will be a bit more sluggish.
 
If at all possible, I would use the $5K to purchase another OB rather than put it into your current model. As you suspected, you'll probably run into other wear and tear items.
 
Also something else to think about with the Prius -- Consumer Reports did an analysis recently on the cost-effectiveness of Hybrids and most of them did not come out ahead in terms of gas savings. Of course there are some assumptions with that analysis, but it shows that unless you're absolutely enamored with the "green" side of hybrids, you really don't make up for it at the pump.
 
Ken

#5982 of 8642 Re: Should I stay with Subaru or not? [kens] by slickdog

Apr 18, 2006 (10:26 am)

Replying to: kens (Apr 17, 2006 4:16 pm)
As for your engine concerns, the Phase I DOHC engine used in your 98 Outback has gone through a few major revisions since it's inception. The headgasket problem primarily afflicted the earlier models (Phase I) and earlier Phase II models. Although Subaru never did a recall, they were very aware of this problem and have addressed it in later designs.
 
Not sure if it was a recall per se, but I have an '01 Outback with the Phase II and they did extend an 8yr/100Kmi warranty on the head gaskets to some cars (including ours), on the condition that the car had to have Subaru's special coolant additive put in at a dealership by a specified date.

#5983 of 8642 Re: Should I stay with Subaru or not? [slickdog] by age2

Apr 18, 2006 (1:02 pm)

Replying to: slickdog (Apr 18, 2006 10:26 am)
i found a 2002 OB that peaked my interest until i heard about this gasket issue. this one has 37,000 miles and has had the gasket problem. the second owner purchased it a year ago, and the gasket has been replaced under her ownership (she has kept maintenance records). my sense is that if this has happened so early on, it's likely to happen again. is this a reason to pass on this one?

#5984 of 8642 idle issues by maddy5

Apr 18, 2006 (4:02 pm)

I am looking for a little help on an idle issue I have with my '06 legacy 2.5i wagon (manual trans.). Recently I have noticed that when the clutch is engaged but with my foot off of the accelerator the engine idle will go back and forth between 1000 and 2000 r.p.m. as if searching for an appropriate idle speed. It will repeat this pattern over and over until the clutch is released. Has anyone else noticed this on their '06 and/or able to offer any explanation/solution for it?
Thanks in advance.
Maddy

Messages Page 599 of 865

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