Last post on May 03, 2013 at 9:35 AM
You are in the Subaru Legacy & Outback
What is this discussion about?
Subaru Legacy, Subaru Outback, Wagon
#5591 of 8641 Re: 2005 Outback 3.0 Brakes. [laughergirl]
Dec 11, 2005 (1:13 pm)
Subaru brakes have not been a problem as far as I know, and in my experience they are anything but weak. My 2002 Legacy has been stopped HARD in traffic when folks cut in front of us and jammed on their brakes. My biggest concern was watching my mirror in case the guy behind us couldn't stop in time and I had to dive for the shoulder to get out of his/her way.
Have you ever done any hard stops in this car? If not, if you are a habitually gentle braker, you may not have ever pushed them hard enough to "bed" the pads to the rotors. There are several procedures for doing this, but all of them involve some routine of one or more hard stops (not quite hard enough for the ABS to kick in , but HARD) from high speed (70 mph or so) down to a NEAR stop, but not quite stopping, and then driving on until the rotors COOL WHILE MOVING. Then repeat as needed. In all of this, safety is a concern: don't try it under slippery conditions, and don't do it when anyone might be behind you and panic or run into you. A deserted road under good conditions is perfect.
What happens is that a thin, even coating of the brake pad material is deposited on the steel rotors under the very high heat involved, and thereafter the brakes stop better (more friction between the pads and the thin coating than between the pad and the bare, smooth steel rotor), and they also last much longer.
Most companies that sell racing brakes describe procedures for doing this in their literature or on their websites, but new car manufacturers don't bother with it. It not only improves brake performance, it also increases durability (strangely enough), but since the durability benefits would not show up for several years, car makers don't bother with it. For most people, normal driving in traffic yields adequate brake performance, and I bet the car companies don't want to tell a new customer that their brakes would last longer and stop better if the owner went out and did this. And certainly some yoyo would try it on an icy road and crash and sue, and the lawyers would all get rich...
For more info on this procedure, do a Google search on "brake bedding" and see what some of the racing brake mfgrs tell you.
We bought our Legacy used, with 57,000 miles and excellent brakes, so I didn't bother with this; but when our 2001 Honda Accord developed a brake pulsation after about 25,000 miles, I bedded the brakes (three hard stops from 75 mph, as above) rather than have the rotors turned. The problem went away immediately, and brake performance thereafter was flawless.
Hope this helps.
#5592 of 8641 Re: 2005 Outback 3.0 Brakes. [tkanic]
Dec 11, 2005 (10:00 pm)
This car is driven everyday, garage kept. I am normally a fairly agressive driver but I have had to change my ways especially in parking decks and inclines because these brakes grind and feel weak. This problem didn't start until about 8,000 mi. I have 17,000 now in just one year. I bought a smaller SUV because I have 2 girls that are learning to drive. I wanted a safe car that they could handle. Now I feel like I should have gotten something else. I don't have time or patience to deal with this. I am afraid that their inexperience could be a problem if these brakes don't stop this car. I made a quick stop the other day going about 20 mph and I thought I was going to crash into the car in front of me. Believe me most cars would have stopped without the awful noise that I heard. I think something is wrong. I just don't know what. I drove my husbands Buick the other day. It is 8 years old. Wow! That is how brakes should work. I had forgotten what good brakes are like.
#5593 of 8641 hesitation
Dec 11, 2005 (10:51 pm)
2001 Outback wagon - 2.5 manual trans
Got a 420 code - and the engine hesitates when accelerating in the lower range of any gear in any way other than gently.
Wonder if it's an O2 sensor and if so, which one? Is there an electronic test one can do on the sensors themselves? Would like to avoid getting raped at the dealer.......if sensors check out ok I guess the cat(s) might be the problem...?
--have done the obvious: plugs, wires, fuel filter, (it was time for those) and dry gas...thanks
#5595 of 8641 Re: Tranny [cptplt]
Dec 11, 2005 (11:39 pm)
I just wanted to clear up the confusion regarding why my 99 Outback wasn't repaired under warranty.
The dealer could not make the trannie problem happen, as it was intermittent at that time(at 72000kms). By the time the trannie problem became solid, my Outback was out of warranty.
I am aware that things do fail, if I were the only person to have had trannie problems with my Subaru Outback, I too would have put it down to bad luck and that would have been the end of the story.
However; my point is that this was a known problem by Subaru, therefore Subaru should have done something about it.
Subaru have done nothing.....except send out a leaflet offering a rebuilt transmission at an inflated price.
Subaru Automatic Transmissions before 1998 did not have a problem and there are many Subaru's with well over 200K kms still running with the orginal Trannies.
I have not heard of any transmission probems on 2003 to 2006, but that maybe because they are still under warranty.
#5596 of 8641 Re: 2005 Outback 3.0 Brakes. [laughergirl]
Dec 12, 2005 (6:35 am)
Well it might be a plus that you are becoming a less agressive driver, but I know that's not what you wanted to hear.
The grinding noise is not normal and it does indicate a problem as well as the 'ineffective brakes'. Let me assure you that a 05 OB should be able to stop very well, leaving a lot of room between you and the deer on the road.
Do you know what wheel it is comming from? Some ideas is a hanging caliper, brake pad installed 'backwards' (metal to the rotor - yes I have seen it happen), badly scored rotors, misalligned pads and/or caliper.
#5597 of 8641 Re: 2005 Outback 3.0 Brakes. [laughergirl]
Dec 12, 2005 (9:05 am)
If you are a fairly aggressive driver, then my long discussion about brake bedding is not relevant: your normal driving should have set the pads up just fine. I would echo what tkanic said: have someone check pads, rotors, be sure some yoyo didn't put a pad in backward (metal to metal!?), and check functioning of the ABS system. Also check a few oddities, like inspecting tires to be sure pressures are up to normal and no exposed metal belt plies, etc. I once had a tiny stone not much bigger than a grain of sand somehow work its way into the edge of a brake pad (how???) and make horrible noises until I dug it out with a screwdriver.
You spoke of grinding on inclines, and I'm trying to figure what that means: is the noise a squeal like a metal scraping, as the wear indicators on the brake pads? That sounds a bit like fingernails on a chalkboard, BTW, if you can remember from school days. Or a buzz-like vibration in the brake pedal, as when the ABS kicks in? Or a "pulse" in the pedal as from a warped rotor (note that overtightened wheel lugs can cause this). And does it not happen on level roads? Is it dependent on the severity of the stop, or speed, or wheel turn, or what? When did this start? Did you have any work done on the wheels or tires, etc., just before that? Did you do any offroad excursions? More data might help with all the experienced Subie owners in this group.
Brakes are such a fundamental safety component that no manufacturer would dare build weak brakes. In fact, most braking systems are capable of stopping the wheels under literally any circumstance, so stopping power is determined more by tire grip and by effectiveness of the ABS if the car has one. If the brakes on your car can't do that, there is something seriously wrong, and it doesn't matter if the car is a Subaru or a Porsche.
Any decent dealer should have found this in one visit, or at most two, if it is intermittent. Maybe it is time to try another dealer. If so, check with others on this network for recommendations. What part of the country are you in?
#5598 of 8641 Re: Battery Icon Light and Brake icon light Illuminated on dash panel [mfmatusky]
Dec 12, 2005 (10:59 am)
Hi, did you ever get a response/solution to this problem?
I purchased a 03 Legacy at 50,303. At 53,800, while traveling, the battery and brake lights stay on. At 55K and cold weather the lights come on at very low speeds,the headlights flicker and the engine revs. Any idea what is going on?
#5599 of 8641 Re: 05 OB, Check engine, Cruse and ABS light on - help [tkanic]
Dec 12, 2005 (12:41 pm)
today I drive the car, the check engine light was not on. I went on my trip and figured to repeat what I did last time to see if it reoccurs. So I stopped on my driveway on a snowy patch then tryed to get up the steep part from a stop. After some wheel spinning the ABS light came on, the Check Engine and the cruse started to blink.
Also the trip odometer shows a 'Er SS' or 'Er 55' code. What is that suppose to be? The ABS light went out on a restart, the check engine is still on.
Also does the car's OBD2 (computer) hold onto the codes so if the check engine light goes out again the dealer can find out why I get the check engine light?
#5600 of 8641 Re: 05 OB, Check engine, Cruse and ABS light on - help [tkanic]
Dec 12, 2005 (2:10 pm)
Wow... that's baffling but the good news is that that you were able to replicate it! The OBD is supposed to hold the codes until they are reset or after what was it.... 90 cycles? So, even if the light goes out in the next couple of days, the code should still be there. Since you know you can replicate the situation that causes the light to trip, perhaps enlist the dealer's help to solve this one. I'm probably being overly optimistic here, but hey, it's Monday! A perfect time for optimism!!!!