Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Smart Shopper Importing Canadian Vehicles to the U.S.
391 messages, Last post on Dec 07, 2008 at 6:29 AM
You are in the Smart Shopper Forum. Your Hosts are kirstie_h & tidester
|
"Grey" market refers to cars bought in foreign countries that, while cheaper, have to be modified to be legal in the States. Exact same cars are sold in Canada as in the States. No modifications required. Totally street legal. So what if the large print on the speedo is in kilometers. US should have gone this route long ago. Manufacturers may not like it. Dealers may not like it. But this trade dispute is a windfall for the American public. How do the manufacturers make money on these cars anyway? They have an extra 5-6k of hidden profit they can do without? More likely they are just bleeding off extra inventory and most definitely DO NOT want the American public (the market that gives them a PROFIT) to take advantage. Honda may SAY it won't honor the warranty, but actually sticking to this is another matter. Besides the basic warranty is only good for 32k miles, which for a Honda, is still the burn-in period. |
|
|
....... Ok, basically how it works is, you buy the vehicle from the ABC dealer in Canada. When you purchase that vehicle, the title then must be transferred to the buyers state (and pay state taxes.) .. at that point in time, to change for the klicks to miles, all miles start at -0- ... Now the vehicle might have 12 klicks .. it might have 1500 klicks. but at the conversion, it will go back to -0- miles. Where the problem falls. Is that the vehicle will show a paper trail of let's say 303 klicks, the conversion is done, and as the vehicle gets sold in 2/3 years or whatever ... the history will show 303 k.. then converted to be miles. That vehicle could have been driven 303 miles or 3,003 miles because a bunch, not all, buyers drive around with with the electronic dash shut off. Till they decide to have it converted.... Thats where some of these problems come up. It's not that some of the manufactures don't want to honor the warranties, it's chasing the real miles ..! You buy the vehicle Feb 1st ... it has 55klicks, now on the paper work it shows that in June it was converted from 55 klicks to Reg miles. Thats what happens a lot .... Terry. |
|
|
Of course you have a TMU problem if you go from xxx kM to -0- miles when you do the conversion. That's common sense. However a reputable (and certified) repair facility will reset the odometer to the miles equivalent of the kM that are showing. Just multiply by .621, not exactly rocket science. Do it the right way and there's no trace of it on the title (again, here in WI anyway). Now when you're ready to trade you've got a car that's indistinguishable from its US-market version, both in terms of equipment and gauges, and has a clean title. True, *if* one were to look carefully it could be ascertained from VIN records that the vehicle was originally purchased in Canada. How much does that piece of info cost the seller (assuming it ever even comes to light)? |
|
|
Let's ignore the TMU issue. human nature is the real problem.. As a dealer we have a hard enough time selling legit cars. Try to explain to a customer who just pulled a carfax all the different numbers. the technology available today allows consumers to find out in a new york minute the car is gray market...blame the internet for this too, haha .additionally 1. I can't sell the vehicle thru the dealer auctions. 2. No matter who did the odometer, its still TMU. Also the doorjams on many brands are stamped as Canadian units and this plate is never chagned during the changeover process. 3. banks will not finance a non us branded titles or gray market cars. 4. We have had warranty issues... Most car companies have seperate divisions that run as completely different companies in canada than the US...This is why many manufacturers will not honor the other country's company warranty... example, MazdaUSA is a different operation than MazdaCanada. Honda is similar along wtih many mfg.. This is why they will not honor each others warranty. Also, the savings are not nearly as big as many on here would lead you to believe. As a dealer who has imported Ford products and managed to wash the titles into "clean" titles. I have found the hassles to not be worth the savings...It seems every unit had problems that eliminated the savings...I learned my lesson and i'm in the business. Stay away from trying to become an importer. |
|
|
Rich, good points. Here's my side: 1. Reselling the vehicle is not a huge consideration since I'd keep the car a long time, until it's not worth much anyway. Plus as a *smart shopper* I know to sell it privately rather than trading it in, thus bypassing the whole auction scene entirely. 2. Regarding TMU, the Wisconsin DMV says the exact opposite: certified repair => clean title. 3. My credit union doesn't care how I spend my home equity loan. 4. Nissan NA honors warranties in either country (I'm looking at the Maxima BTW). Bottom line, for certain people in certain situations, this can work out great and result in significant savings. I happen to be one such example (or so I think). Any of the above hurdles (or others) could be a dealbreaker for someone else, though. I'd also readily admit that the *system* seems to favor the average Joe "importer-keeper" much more than the businessman "importer-reseller". The latter brings to mind Kramer and Newman's (naturally) ill-fated scheme: driving the mail truck full of aluminum cans to MI for the 10 cent deposits... |
|
|
...... That was 1 funny show... l..o..l... Those 2 kill me... I think the point of reality is .. unlike yourself, most people are trading every 28 months (or trying) .. See, you have a plan, you know in advance (and in your heart) .. you will keep this vehicle for ..5/6/7 years. That's not a problem -- you know what you are buying, when you buy it. The Vast majority .. that's a whole different story. Ok -- I can save $3,000 now and I will make that up when I get my Chevy, BMW, Infiniti, Lincoln ..or whatever in 5/6 years. But what really happens is: They become a consumer ..in 20 months there lookin', Car and Driver covers the new Envoy, Subaru, any new rocket vehicle. In 24 months, there shopping around a little -- come 28 months, they are locked, loaded and ready to go. The fatal attraction starts to get ugly, when the vehicle they are trying to trade is still worth $3/$4,000 less -- No matter what they paid for it. It's just human nature. I'm not knocking any vehicles from Canada, They make wonderful vehicles there .. and Super boats. But until this Quasi "no market control" get's over it -- the consumer will pay for it --- Do I think it's fair .. absolutely not..! Do I think it hurts the market.. Not in my opinion. Just the consumer .... Terry. |
|
|
rroyce10: you are wrong for the most part. First of all you can not extrapolate the price difference from new to used cars. For instance let's say the price difference is $4k between a certain new US car and its Canadian equivalent. Then, in a number of years, let's say the US purchased car will be worth $3K. What would the price be for the Canadian car? Negative $1K? Second, I'll be generous here and extrapolate the difference, even though you cannot (see above). So consider this - you pay $4K less for a new car in Canada, then after a number of years sell it for $4K less than the equivalent used US car, and in the meanwhile invest the $4K. Definitely makes sense to buy from Canada. Third, what do you mean by: I'm not knocking any vehicles from Canada, They make wonderful vehicles there .. The Nissan Maxima, for instance, is made in the same plant in Japan whether it is sold in Canada or the USA. The US and Canadian versions are identical, except for some cosmetic differences such as the speedometer. And finally, as many people here have pointed out, please note - they DO NOT reset the odometer to 0 miles!!! As long as it is done properly the DMV gives you a clean title. So in reality you will be selling your Canadian purchased car for the same money (or close to it) as if it were purchased here in the USA. |
|
|
Why do they announce the cars at the Nissan sale as TMU ? Why do I have to inform the customer that even though the odom has been replaced to miles it is still considered TMU. Even if everthing is documented. Maybe some states are different than Iowa,so customers need to call their DMV before they take Sgrd advice. |
|
|
...... All do respect, in theory .. your right. In the reality sense, you are waaaay off. I go to 6/7/8 auctions a month ... from Orlando to Detroit .. from Detroit to NY, and most of them in between. On a average month I see 8/9/10,000+ vehicles a month. Everything from a Ferrari to Cavaliers. I'm not some kind of guru .. or try to be a mister know it all. I only give advice from a little experience of being around about 100 different dealers .. their products, my products.. all products. All vehicles that run through the auctions that are Canadian .. run as TMU. Whether it's a 2002 T-Bird or a 92 Caravan. I'm not saying that there is not a financial savings when you buy the vehicle from Canada ... because there is. But on the original MSO from the dealer, it shows where it came from.. and the title will show the mileage, whether it's in Klicks or miles. When the conversion takes place .. the Fed sticker shows in the door, the conversion then will start at -0- as in zero. .. along with that, any or all service reports as the vehicle, gains miles will show the the original klicks ... I have seen thousands .. I mean thousands pass through the auctions. Up goes the yellow light, the auctioneer announces it's Canadian, whether it has 250 miles or 250,000 miles ...85% of the dealers walk to the next lanes, 10% of those, hang around to watch what they might do .. and 1 or 2 of those, make a weak bid or two .. down goes the hammer at 1/2 of the normal price. Again I'm not trying to be smart -- I have seen all the gray markets that ran in the 80's that ended up being worth about 50% of what those poor people paid for em' in Germany or wherever .... and then people got the hint and stayed away. The Canadian vehicles are a great buy for someone that will keep a vehicle for 4/5/6+ years .. run the wheels off and get your dollars worth. That works for them. But for the average guy that is now trying to trade every 28+ months --- a $4/$5,000 is a lot of Cake to loose just for the Mapleleaf. This is a very hard to "explain away" .. to the buyer in Chi-town, Baton Rouge, Trenton, Kansas City, Lexington, Delray, Boston .... and all parts north and south. But, give it a try .. it may work out well for you. I hope this make some sense ... Terry. |
|
|
|
|
I also am in the same boat as Terry. I am a dealer and I am at 3-4 auctions. A week. I go to 3-4 Jaguar Credit auctions per month. And often they'll send a batch of ex-canadian cars down here. And they are easy to spot as they have headlamp washers that the US cars dont. Want a Topaz/Oatmeal 1998 XJ8 with 40K for $19-20K? Ex-Canadian. Want an Ex-US-Lease car? $24K easily. Bill |
|
You are here:
Forums
Smart Shopper Importing Canadian Vehicles to the U.S.
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
