Last post on Dec 05, 2013 at 12:05 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Chevrolet Malibu, Nissan Maxima, Mazda MAZDA3, Nissan Altima, Honda Accord, Honda Civic, Hyundai Elantra, Lexus IS 250, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#3410 of 3637 Re: New Car thoughts [acemanhattan]
Aug 20, 2013 (2:42 pm)
Most new car warranties cover almost everything for 3 years and 36,000 miles. In addition, the engine and transmission are usually covered for 5 years and 60,000 miles.
The Honda Fit, which is a very functional hatchback, is Honda's entry level car. Base price is about $17,000, but discounts are hard to get. You might get $700 off or so, but there's just not that much profit in the car, in part because it's made in Japan.
The Civic is made in the USA in a huge state-of-the-art factory in Indiana. They are pumping them out full tilt and there are tons of them out there. I think it was the best selling car for Honda last month, and just behind the Camry. The Civic had significant improvements for 2013. In other words, don't get a 2012.
Dealers are dealing on the Civic, and you should be able to get $2000 off list without much trouble. Even the base model has a few things not found on other cars in its class, like a back up camera.
The Civic also was the only small car to get a good rating on the IIHS crash test. Check out this video:
Not everyone agrees, but Honda fans like me feel that Hondas are often a little better at some things, like this crash test. In other words, for Honda fans there is a reason why they cost a little more. I think that extra is worth it and is buying you a slightly better car. Of course, fans of other brands feel the same about their cars, but watching that video above you can see that Honda did better than everyone else in that particular test. Same with midsize cars with the Accord. Probably some of the competition will catch up next year, but for now...
Aug 20, 2013 (2:14 pm)
If I understand correctly, is the LX the base model for the Civic?
#3412 of 3637 Re: Civic LX? [acemanhattan]
Aug 20, 2013 (2:51 pm)
Yes, the LX is now the base model of the Civic.
They used to sell a DX, but it was kinda silly, since it didn't even have AC or a stereo iirc.
The LX has everything you need, including bluetooth, etc. Nice car. You should test drive it though, and see if you think it's worth $2000 more than a Mazda3. You might decide it's 1k better but not 2?
#3413 of 3637 Re: Civic LX? [benjaminh]
Aug 20, 2013 (4:11 pm)
I am going to try to test drive a both a Civic and a Mazda3 this weekend.
Aug 20, 2013 (4:18 pm)
I've been quoted a price of $18873.77 on a 2013 Civic LX and have been told it includes Oregon DMV fees. What are your thoughts on this price, and what fees might NOT have been added in there? For the record, I wont be needing any dealership added accessories.
Also, one dealership I talked to said that they include a 100k powertrain warranty. I've been warned by other dealers that this is a trap of some sort. That if I miss any of their scheduled maintenance the deal is null and that, somehow as a result of the terms, I get roped into only doing business with their dealership (so if Jiffy Lube changes the oil, null). Thoughts on this? They say they also include free tires and free rentals.
#3415 of 3637 Re: Dealer quote [acemanhattan]
Aug 20, 2013 (4:48 pm)
Ask to see the warranty. It will spell out whether you must have all maintenance done by that dealer or not.
Such warranties are not necessarily "traps", but ways some dealers use to differentiate themselves. A local car dealer chain in my area offers a free lifetime powertrain warranty on all new cars and all used cars with less than 60k miles. They are a reputable company so I doubt this is a "trap". But there may be conditions, e.g. keeping up with manufacturer's scheduled maintenance.
Ask also to see the details on "free tires". Free loaners are pretty common.
#3417 of 3637 Re: New Car thoughts [benjaminh]
Aug 20, 2013 (10:31 pm)
I was in the same situation a while back, though. I had about 7-8K to spend, but the problem was this:
Economy cars, even if they are made by BMW or Mercedes (as has happened in the past, even for them) age incredibly poorly once they hit about ten years old. Civics are reliable and all of that, but they are also falling apart and rattling at ten years old. The engine will still run forever, but it's just a beater at that point.
The problem is that 7-8K buys you nothing good. It's all high mileage, sketchy histories, ex-rentals, taxis, won't pass smog, the AC is on its way out, of the transmission is slipping. You have to go to the 10-14K range, and that's where you hit the real problem:
- Banks loan money at terrible rates for used cars vs new.
- Used cars are often out of their warranty at even that much money.
- You will spend $100 a month on upkeep
- Banks won't touch anything over 7 years old, anyways. That means a 2006 at the most. And that's way out of $7K.
- After you resell the car in 6-7 years, you'll get about half of your money back anyways, effectively dropping the purchase price to lease levels.
- You need a reliable car early in your life the most.
So $12K at 5% interest (typical for a used loan) plus repairs and upkeep ends up being about the same money as a new car $4-5K more.
- No upkeep, no anything, and 0% financing if you buy domestic. So you can literally get a car for $250-$350 a month and that's all you end up paying.
Case in point - my car. A 2014 Mustang. Base model, manual, nothing on it (comes standard with Civic EX level equipment anyways, or close to it). $340 a month. If I dumped your $7 into it, my payments would drop to $225 a month.
Now, if I went with a much cheaper car, I could end up paying $250 a month to own a car. As has been pointed out, a new car will last 5-7 years no matter what brand it is these days. Minus the $7K, you would be looking at $150 a month. Add in the money you get back (about 40% of new price when you sell it), and it's just going to cost you $28 a month. Provided you get a cheap but decent vehicle.
$14K-9K (depreciation) = 5K you sell it for.
$14K-7K (your cash) = 7K owed.
Net difference, $2K over 6 years. Or about $28 a month.
In my case, it was $100 a month loss, but that's also nothing. Better safety, more fun, and all of the other perks of a new car. Worth the money I'd be spending on upkeep of my old car? DUH.
#3418 of 3637 Re: New Car thoughts [plekto]
Aug 20, 2013 (11:09 pm)
Now, I feel that it's a poor person who gives advice without a solution or two being offered.
I'll keep this short - Here is my short list of cars to consider new without breaking the bank:
- Ford Fusion. Base model, nothing on it. $19-20K depending on the incentives you qualify for. Civic money for a car with more everything and about the same fuel economy.
- Ford Mustang. Same deal - base model, nothing on it. $19K if you shop around a tiny bit. Mine gets about 24-25mpg combined in So Cal rush hour traffic/gridlock every day. Most economy cars don't do more than a few mpg better. Awesome fun to drive and comes very well equipped.
- Honda Insight. At $17.5K, it warrants mention as it is a serious fuel-saver. Cargo space is OK as well. I like to think of it as a cheap econobox with a better engine than the Jeep Patriot. It's ticky-tacky and the interior screams budget, but it IS a Honda and it DOES get crazy mpg.
- Chevy Cruze. You can get a left-over 2013 base model for about $15.5K. This is a tremendous value as it's almost Yaris cheap.
- Ford Focus. The base model is $15K.
- A base model Mazda 3 is also $15K. Though, the Focus is far better to actually drive.
- A Honda Fit is $15K. Its claim to fame is cargo space. The manual in this is video game easy to drive, btw.
- Mitsubishi Lancer. The 2013 ES are going for $14K.
You can get new cars for $12K-$13K, but they tend to be very poor value.
#3419 of 3637 Re: Dealer quote [acemanhattan]
Aug 21, 2013 (1:03 am)
18.8 for a Civic LX seems high. How much are DMV fees? What is it without those?
Here is a Civic LX in Nashville for 17.5k, and they have a dozen or so at this price:
2013 Honda Civic LX Sedan
Bodystyle:SedanTransmission:5-Speed AutomaticDrive Line:FWDEngine:1.8L I-4 cyl
Exterior Color:Taffeta WhiteStock #:DE058454Trim:LX
I think you should probably skip the warranty. Getting service done at the dealership is probably ok, but you're right to be cautious. A normal Honda extended warranty doesn't require service at a particular dealer.
You should try multiple dealers and try to trade them off each other to get a better price. Try this site: