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Chevrolet Malibu, Nissan Maxima, Mazda MAZDA3, Nissan Altima, Honda Accord, Honda Civic, Hyundai Elantra, Lexus IS 250, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#2070 of 3274 Re: Malibu or Fusion - making myself nuts [djm2]
Jan 29, 2011 (4:36 pm)
Your comments about the substantial differences between the Michelin's on your 2007 Camry and the Goodyears on your 2010 Malibu were very interesting. Enough so that I decided to do a little research and here's what I found-
The 2010 Malibu LTZ uses a P225/50TR18 Goodyear Eagle LS-2 (Grand Touring All-Season) tire. The only thing vaguely interesting about these tires are the price- only $98 each for replacements! For an 18" tire with a 50-series sidewall, that is DIRT CHEAP...rarely a good sign when it comes to tire quality.
The 2007 Camry uses a P215/60VR16 Michelin Energy MXV4 S8 (Grand Touring All-Season) tire. This tire wears the "Michelin Green X" Low-Rolling-Resistance certification (and costs $172 each for replacements). It was the standard tire on most 2006-2010 Hyundai Sonata, all 2005-2007 Honda Accord Hybrid, 2007-2011 Toyota Camry and 2007-2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid models! It is engineered to be the most efficient tire in its class and apparently it does just that.
When the time comes to replace the OEM Goodyears on your Malibu, here are three very good replacements you should take a look at-
Michelin Primacy MXM4 - P225/50VR18
Grand Touring All-Season
'Green X' LRR-rating
$209 each - 6-year/55,000-mile treadwear warranty
Michelin HydroEde - P225/50TR18
'Green X' LRR-rating
$158 each - 6-year/90,000-mile treadwear warranty
Continental ProContact with EcoPlus Technology- P225/50TR18
Standard Touring All-Season
$118 each - 6-year/80,000-mile treadwear warranty
#2071 of 3274 Re: Malibu or Fusion - making myself nuts [igozoomzoom]
Jan 29, 2011 (5:55 pm)
Thank you for your very interesting and informative posting! ---- You have just proved my point, that General Motors has equipped the "top of the line Chevrolet Malibu LTZ" with the bottom of the line Goodyear Tires! ----- (This is an accident looking for a place to happen, and of course it will always be "driver's error!" ----- If one of these fails on the road, I will be sure to retain the tire, and have it examined by a tire expert! ----- If it turns out to be defective in materials and workmanship, I will seek legal advice! ---- This could turn out to be another Ford Explorer / Firestone issue!)
I am very sure that if I put Michelin Tires on the Malibu, I will get at least 30 MPG, if not close to 33 MPG. ----- Now having said that, as a customer who is trying to buy from an American name plate, I feel that GM has treated me, and others who own this vehicle in a very "shabby manner!" ---- This vehicle is competing against the Honda Accord, the Toyota Camry and the Hyundai Sonata, but GM does not put the same quality type of tires on their vehicle. ---- Personally, I feel General Motors owes me a set of high quality tires. ----- Now the question becomes, how do I get GM to pay for the tires?
This is why consumers have abandoned the American Car companies in the past! ---- If the American car companies want loyal customers, ----- loyalty works both ways!
Best regards. --------- Dwayne
Best regards. ---------------- Dwayne
#2072 of 3274 Re: Malibu or Fusion - making myself nuts [djm2]
Jan 30, 2011 (6:20 am)
Do you check the air pressure after the Chev dealer sets them at 30psi?
Perhaps their gauge doesn't read the same as yours. Again as many others have mentioned 2psi in a month is nothing to worry about.
You could replace the four tires with top of the line Michelins and still have a slight lose in a month. The rims could be the problem, not the Goodyears. Then what do you do? Demand GM replace the rims for a 2psi lose. They will never do that and no other manufacturer would either. If you were losing five psi per month then you would have a case.
Comparing the tires on the Camry to the Malibu. The tire gauge that the Toyota dealer uses simply may be reading the same as yours and the Chev dealer's gauge slightly different.
Manufacturers use all types of tires on vehicles. However, they all must meet or exceed rigorous safety standards. Everyone has had problems with various brands--for instance the owners of late model Toyota Highlanders with 19 inch rims complain about poor traction in winter and the wet roads with the tire that Toyota installed from the factory.
I am afraid that you just don't have a case for tire or rim replacement with maybe a slight 2psi loss per month. The tire isn't going to self destruct due to a slight lose of air. Me thinks you are overly concerned.
#2073 of 3274 Re: Malibu or Fusion - making myself nuts [bdyment]
Jan 30, 2011 (7:36 am)
Thank you for the response to my recent posting. I appreciate your ideas on this subject and I would like to respond to your posting.
1.) (QUOTE: "Do you check the air pressure after the Chevrolet Dealer sets the air at 30psi?") --------- Kindly be advised that I choose to have all my vehicles serviced, by the selling dealer every 2,500 miles, because I do not believe in extended oil and filter changes. ----- At that point in time, I have all fluids checked, and the tires set at the proper psi. ---- (At the appropriate mileage, the vehicle's tires are rotated.) ----- After four weeks the tire pressure is down to 28 psi, as indicated by the "on-board monitoring system." ----- (QUESTION: ---- Is a "hand held tire gauge" more accurate than the "on-board monitoring system?" ----- If that is true, then I seriously question the quality of the entire vehicle!) ------ If I am taking my vehicle to an authorized Chevrolet dealership for service, I would assume that they have the correct knowledge and equipment to do the task correctly. ---- In addition, the "monitoring system" always shows that I have 30psi when leaving the dealership. ---- (NOTE: I do check the oil in the engine once a week, in the morning prior to leaving for work, because there is no monitoring system for being one quart low!)
2.) (QUOTE: "You could replace the four (4) tires with top of the line Michelins and still have a slight loss in a month. ---- The rims could be the problem, not the Goodyears. Then what do you do? ---- Demand GM replace the rims for 2psi?) ------ There is a very good possibility that the problem could involve both the tires and / or the rims. ----- If the rims are porous, then there is a manufacturing defect in the material of the Aluminum / Alloy rim. ---- If the rim is machined improperly, where the tire seals against the rim, then there is a manufacturing defect in the process associated with rim construction. ----- IT DOES NOT MATTER to me as the customer, because I paid for a vehicle, and I expect a level of quality that equals other vehicles in the same price range both foreign and domestic. ----- (THERE IS AN "EXPECTATION OF QUALITY" ASSOCIATED WITH THIS PURCHASE!) ---- I expect "quality" for my money, because I give my customers quality for their money! ---- GM is free to make any decision that they want in relation to this issue, and I am free to share my opinion based on the facts that I have collected and my daily experience with this vehicle. ---- I would like to meet with a GM / Chevrolet Representative to seriously discuss this issue. ----- GM needs every customer at this point in time! ---- I would love to write a "posting" on this forum saying that GM has solved the problem with my LTZ Malibu! ---- That is my goal!
Thank you again for your time and concern with regards to this issue. It is always good to hear everyone's opinion. This is what makes this forum GREAT! By sharing ideas we can focus in on the problem, and come up with solutions.
Best regards. ---------- Dwayne
#2074 of 3274 Re: Malibu or Fusion - making myself nuts
Jan 30, 2011 (8:02 am)
Note - OEM tires are always either vastly inflated in price as part of the tire/rim package or are simply whatever they could put on and save money while doing it. Brand doesn't make much difference. Brakes and struts are similar - most OEM stuff is mediocre at best.
1 - Concerning the tire pressure, the fact is that with any tubeless tire, they will always settle into the PSI that is appropriate based upon the weight of the vehicle and geometry of the rim. Excess air will simply bleed out until the internal pressure and the tire's material come into equilibrium. Given that many vehicles are heavier than ever before, it's likely to cause more of this effect. If anything, blame the low profile tires that they put on extremely heavy front ends.
2 - You should go by what the manufacturer recommends and never on what it says on the tire. Case in point - I had an old 4Runner. Front was supposed to be 26 and the rear 34. The tires always said 35PSI but would handle like junk and wear wrong unless I set them to what it said on the sticker on the door. What it says on the tire is the maximum recommended pressure and it's just fine to run them a few PSI lower if the vehicle's suspension and/or rims require it. Also, for instance, if you're on snow or other poor surfaces. Lowering your PSI on your snow tires by 5 -10 PSI temporarily can make a world of difference. Virtually no tire that I know of will pop its bead unless you're running at least 15PSI or lower.
3 - He's seriously wasting the dealer's time over 2PSI? Give the poor overworked people a break and just deal with it. Unless the tires are wearing bald on the edges, it's fine.
4 - Yes, engines burn and/or leak some oil. They always have.
#2075 of 3274 Re: Malibu or Fusion - making myself nuts [djm2]
Jan 30, 2011 (8:07 am)
Dwayne For your peace of mind why don't you just check the tires after the dealer has inflated them to 30psi. Yes there could be a variance between the on board display and the hand held gauge. For instance the average mpg reported by various makes of autos often does not agree with a manual check of fuel mileage.
Another suggestion is to slightly over inflate the four tires to 32 or 33psi for a few weeks. This will often seat a tire against the rim and stop a small lose of air. The suggestions that people have given you is exactly what a dealer will do to check a faulty tire or rim.
#2076 of 3274 Re: Malibu or Fusion - making myself nuts [djm2]
Jan 30, 2011 (9:46 pm)
I don't know how far you drive to get to the dealer but if the tires are warm, filling them with air won't be all that accurate. They should be filled when they are cold.
Oil changes at 2500? Wow. I guess that I won't suggest that you do a Google search on the 3000 mile oil change myth.
#2077 of 3274 Re: Malibu or Fusion - making myself nuts [tallman1]
Jan 30, 2011 (11:36 pm)
On oil, it depends.
The first oil change should be done at 100 miles if the engine is using conventional oil and is an older design. The reason is because new formulations don't have enough zinc and phosphorous in the last 2-3 years and older designs (the V8 in a Ford Mustang is a good example) were designed with high zinc oil in mind. You need to swap it out in that case. And, the initial grime from the new engine is also nice to get out. If it is a modern design, it's fine to wait to 3K and then change like normal at 3-6K after that as long as it isn't recycled oil. Conventional oil fails gradually and even when it is extremely old, will still provide some protection. Stabilizers like Lucas and similar can extend the life substantially in extreme conditions.
ie - if I bought a new Grand Marquis with that ancient 4.6 V8 in it, or say, a GM car with a pushrod engine, I'd immediately dump the oil and put high zinc racing oil in it for the first couple of changes to help harden the internal parts and get the rings seated properly. With an engine like the Ecotec, modern low zinc oils will likely be just fine.
For synthetic, though, it's trickier. The issue is that synthetic "oil" is really just viscous goo with a bunch of anti-wear additives added. IF (no, WHEN) the additives fail, it fairly quickly fails and has the lubricating properties of water(engine eats itself in short order). This is such a potential disaster that Cadillac and several other manufacturers are now telling owners that they should change at 6K no matter what the oil life monitor says.
The first change should be at half the normal interval or 6 months after manufacture if it's been sitting on the lot that long before being sold in any case. Sitting for a year in the corner of the lot with 30 miles on it is asking for a problem.
So there are really three factors at work. New vs old engine design, normal vs synthetic oil, and high vs low zinc.
#2078 of 3274 Re: Malibu or Fusion - making myself nuts [plekto]
Jan 31, 2011 (7:42 am)
Simply put, ---- "oil and filters are cheap maintenance, ----- engines are expensive!" ----- I always have this service performed at the selling dealer, so that all my service records are at one location. ---- I can then travel all over the country, and have my service records follow me through computer science, ----- should there be a warranty issue on the road! ---- It keeps my life "stupid simple!" ---- Extended oil and filter services are over-rated! --- (Nice idea but not practical in the "real world!) ---If you check the "net" you will see engine sludge issues in name plates such as Chrysler, VW, & Toyota. ----- By having my vehicle serviced frequently, I can have my fluids and tire pressure monitored. ----- This is why I am so annoyed at the tire pressure issue on this vehicle! ----- Chevrolet has a quality car in the Malibu, but they miss the little things that would make it GREAT and OUTSTANDING, ----- (like high quality tires!) ----- QUESTION: ----- How much more would it cost to put a set of "Michelin fuel efficient tires" on this vehicle, --- recognizing that they purchase large quantities for their assembly line? ---- Their MPG increase would be an additional "selling tool" for future vehicles in the marketplace! ----- Cheap is NOT always better! ----- I was ready to consider purchasing an additional Chevrolet vehicle, when I turn in my 2007 XLE V6 Camry (2012), but now I need to really re-think this decision. ----- I cannot get 30mpg from a four cylinder engine and a 6 speed automatic transmission, ------- yet I can get 30+ mpg on a V6 Camry with a 6 speed automatic trans. ------ (The Camry has Michelin tires!) ----- I am still waiting for a response from the GM factory representative that monitors these boards! ----- My vehicle is paid in full, so as such, I could "bit the bullet" and trade it for a foreign name plate, --- or I could I could advertise my dissatisfaction with these tires with magnetic signs on the vehicle. ---- (I am sure that GM would consider that very unprofessional on my part, but it is "ok" to equip the vehicle with low quality tires.) ------ The MSRP on this vehicle was $30,000.00! --- (I did not pay close to this.) ---- For that MSRP, (on a Toyota), I would have original equipment Michelin tires, and I would not have to adjust their pressure on a weekly basis! ---- QUESTIONS: --- What is wrong with wanting quality for the money spent? ---- Because of these tires, I AM NOT getting the posted mileage numbers. ----- Does GM care? ---- The answer to that question is "NO," because if they wanted to get maximum MPG from this vehicle they would install fuel efficient tires on this vehicle from the factory. -----
Thank you for sharing the information on engine oil. ---- I learn a lot of background information. ----- This is what makes these forums GREAT! ---- There are a lot of people out there in the computer world who have important information, and who are willing to share it in an open forum.
Best regards. ----------------- Dwayne
#2079 of 3274 Re: Malibu or Fusion - making myself nuts [plekto]
Jan 31, 2011 (9:29 am)
I would encourage everyone to look at the scientific data about oil changes and then decide. There are environmental and political issues about using oil unnecessarily. I wouldn't want people to think that changing oil at 2500 - 3k is the only option if one wants to take care of one's engine.
As for new engines, check your manufacturer's recommendations. As an example, Honda puts an additive (molybdenum) in their engines from the factory that helps get rid of the small metal filings in new engines. They suggest that you wait until 5000 miles for that first oil change.