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Maintenance & Repair Fuel and Oil Additives
1246 messages, Last post on Sep 28, 2009 at 7:37 AM
You are in the Maintenance & Repair Forum. Your Host is mr_shiftright
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Mar 22, 2009 3:18 pm) 
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Replying to: niknmax (Mar 21, 2009 5:32 pm) I can assure you,you will find limited "jump on the band wagon" here. I hope you invested little and all I can say is hit the trades day circuit and maybe you will find some believers without providing proof. Basspro |
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I'm not trying to start a flame war or sell anything here, and searched this forum for comments on two oil additives (one backed by a mix of testimonials, and one mostly by engineering tests) before writing this. Motorsilk showed up at a 3/09 Oregon Green festival. They were handing out small green bottles of pleasant smelling cold metal treatment that looks like hand lotion. Yet there's a curious gap on their web site (everything stops at 2006). One report mentioned American Guardian warranty coverage includes their product, but web searches suggested American Guardian coverage is mediocre at best. Another report suggested MS reduced fuel consumption in diesel engines, but that the fuel consumption went right back up when it was no longer added (so much for the "permanent treatment" nonsense). ASL Camguard is indeed intended for airplanes and for that reason is limited wrt friction fighting. It's rumored they're working on an automotive version. There's another one out out there; tungsten disulphide. This near-diamond hard material, ground finely, supposedly coats engine parts permanently. A crude test of adding my nano-grade sample to a tube of 0-20 engine oil, then vigorously mixed, showed it settled out after 30 minutes. A former Exxon chemist told me no one to date has gotten it to work. Meanwhile, my oil's changed at 3000 miles, and the air filters regularly, Techron additive in the gas, and so far no problems. If there's something better out there I'd enjoy hearing about it.
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Replying to: kurtamaxxxguy (Mar 27, 2009 7:56 pm) additives = huile du serpent Is there something better than oil changes every 3,000 miles? Yup, synthetic oil changes every 10,000+ miles. Is there somethign better than pouring Techron in your tank? Yup, not pouring Techron in your tank. |
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Replying to: kurtamaxxxguy (Mar 27, 2009 7:56 pm) Oh but you can "run your car to 500, 000 miles".....and who exactly does that? And what will this car LOOK LIKE in 500K miles after the door handles have fallen off and the suspension is probably cracked in ten places? Expensive additives seem to me to be the answer to the question that no one has asked. Or perhaps more accurately, the solution to a problem that doesn't exist. |
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Replying to: kurtamaxxxguy (Mar 27, 2009 7:56 pm) This near-diamond hard material, ground finely, supposedly coats engine parts permanently. I read that and analytically think that since this is a very hard mineral, why would I put such an abrasive into my oil and drive with it grinding between the bearings and the rings and cylinder walls. Also I wonder how they train the particles to stick to the cylinder walls rather than the bearings to harden them. And how do they train the particles to stick onto the walls in low spots so they're not sticking out like sand on quartz sandpaper just waiting to abraid the opposing metal moving past it? I understand Techron having an impact on the fuel injectors if any of the long chain organics have formed on the moving parts. I use Techron. It's other people choice NOT to use Techron. Of course now that I use Shell's new fuel with nitrogen in it (is that like nitrogen used in tires is a discovery to save the world?  ), I won't have to use Techron because the nitrogen will have cleaned up all the systems. Does anyone else see humor in their advertisements?
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I have played the additive game for years, keep looking for something that works. I tried this one back in 2007 and have stuck with it. It does something different. After seeing it work in over 100 engines, I am convinced. Tried it first in an old engine that had cylinder wear - low compression. It worked and the compression is solid to this day. My 2002 Escape has a lot more power and better fuel economy. Bottom line it works despite all the rest of the products that don't. At the risk of throwing this product to the forum, it is XADO www.xadowest.com . They got API certification of their oils treated with the active ingredient. Well, lets see what comes of it. Guys - I tried it - it works. Nik
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Replying to: niknmax (Mar 28, 2009 8:19 am)  Unless you run it next to engines without the additive, and plot these two parallel engine tests over the course of the life of the engines, you have no proof of anything seems to me. As for having more "power", did you do a before and after dynamometer test? Or are you measuring with the seat of your pants? And besides, what are you trying to accomplish with additives that an engine with good oil and oil changes can't do by itself anyway? As an analogy, if I take your Magic Vitamins and live to be 80 and I feel "peppier", how can you ever know that I wouldn't have lived to be 80 anyway? Or that I'm just experiencing a placebo effect of spending $100 on your vitamins? Fact is, you can't. Also 80 is the natural lifespan. Same with engines. If Engine Group A, the ones with the additive,are run in the exact same way as Engine Group B, and Group A outlives Group B by an appreciable amount, then you have something. But these additive companies never do this test---because they would fail IMO. They'd fail to deliver more longevity and they'd fail on the dyno. |
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Replying to: niknmax (Mar 28, 2009 8:19 am) Sorry, you have absolutely zero proof that it does anything of the sort. With this last post of yours, you've just crossed over into the official Snake Oil Salesman territory and as such, have completely discredited yourself and pretty much anything you'll post from now on. Your only potential salvation would be to post some verifiable science that backs up your ridiculous sounding claims, however, you've been asked to do that before and, so far at least, you've been unwilling or unable to cross that threshold. My bet is that you will continue to be regarded as a Snake Oil Salesman for as long as you continue to be a shill for the bilge water you're trying to sell to the unsuspecting folks on this site (and probably others as well). Best regards, Shipo |
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Isn't Techron an additive for Chevron and Texaco fuels, intended to help remove deposits? Some reports suggest that its overuse might cause valve shafts to stick, so I only use it every 9000 miles or so. GM dealers sell Techron-shaped bottles of "GM fuel additive". Bottle Shape doesn't confirm Techron's in 'em, but OEM's often use same packaging and change the label, figuring the customer/user won't notice it. An oddity, if nothing else. As Mr. Shiftright points out, one really needs to see proper engineering tests of these products before determining whether they work. The sparse true dyno testing of these additives may be because the products fail, show no major advantage, or that mfr. can't afford dyno cost or time. (The one additive I use does have physical testing behind it.) BTW, XADO (pronounced Haa_do) appears to come from Russian and Chinese research, but... it claims successfully running treated engines (Audi, etc.) without oil. Haven't we've heard that claim before? As for these "permanent treatments" lasting 100,000 miles, tests show they usually stop working when the oil's changed (logical - there is nothing to replenish the coating!!). That means those of us with regular oil change intervals (3750 required for me) will be spending $25 - 100 every change for a modest improvement in fuel mileage. No way will that cost be recovered !! Caveat Emptor!
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Maintenance & Repair Fuel and Oil Additives
