Last post on Feb 04, 2012 at 9:25 AM
You are in the Nissan Titan
What is this discussion about?
Nissan Frontier, Nissan Titan, Truck
#367 of 485 Re: Brake Problems on Titan [rengaw]
Mar 09, 2007 (9:19 am)
OK. First off the reliability problems extends much further than just the brakes. My 04 Nissan Titan was serviced over 20 times, 4 times for the brakes, and 4 computers systems, window regulators,door handels, switches, engine harnesses, transmission, and serveral recalls. Nissan stopped honoring the written warranty at 24000 miles, and 30 months.
The issue with the brakes are; brakes in general reduced the kinectic enery of a a vehicle. Note that kinetic energy increases with the square of the velocity (E = Ĺm∑v2 relationship). This means that if the speed of a vehicle doubles, it has four times as much energy. The brakes must therefore dissipate four times as much energy to stop it and consequently the braking distance is four times as long.
Due to the small design, poor engineering and sub-quality parts in the 2004 Nissan Titans the brakes warp and cause juddering. Brake judder is usually perceived by the driver as minor to severe vibrations transferred through the chassis during braking.
The judder phenomenon can be classified into two distinct subgroups; they are Hot (Thermal) or Cold Judder. Hot judder is usually produced as a result of longer more moderate braking from high speed where the vehicle does not come to a complete stop. It commonly occurs when a motorist decelerates from speeds of around 120-km/h to about 60-km/h, which results in severe vibrations being transmitted to the driver. These vibrations are the result of uneven thermal distributions believed to be the result of phenomena called Hot Spots. Hot Spots are classified as concentrated thermal regions that alternate between both sides of a disc that distort it in such a way that produces a sinusoidal waviness around its edges. Once the brake pads (friction material / brake lining) comes in contact with the sinusoidal surface during braking severe vibrations are induced as a result and can produce hazardous conditions for the person driving the vehicle. Cold judder on the other hand is the result of uneven disc wear patterns or DTV. These variations in the disc surface are usually the result of extensive vehicle road usage. DTV is usually attributed to the following causes; waviness of rotor surface, misalignment of axis (Runout), elastic deflection, thermal distortion, wear and friction material transfers .
Ok, this is kind of a technical answer but I have a lot of personal experience in this matter. Bottomline, what I would also take away from this is Nissan's reponse to handeling the brake defect, they fixed the defect the cheapest way possible, so it never really corrected the problem. In my case at the 4th attempt at 30 months/24,000 miles they never fixed it. I got statements like "all brakes judder on trucks/SUVs" or "just trade it in and we'll give 1000 dollars off MSRP" and one representative outright called me "a lair." So I took the truck to Midas to get the repair work done, at an out-of-pocket expense of $800.00.
So I took out of this whole ordeal is Nissan values its bottom-line (profit) more the the life of its consumers. So the problem with the Nissan Titan extends more than reliability, but also into the lawfulness and ethic values and hopefully no owner has to go through the nightmare that I had to go through with Nissan.
Good luck if you go Nissan just realize there is more to a truck than apprearance and features. As I like to say "If Nissan isn't even willing to back its product why should I?"
#368 of 485 Brake Issues and Nissan
Mar 09, 2007 (12:01 pm)
I took delivery of one of the first Titans in the Detroit Metro area.
I also had judder problems but they fixed them and I have't had a problem with them since.
The problem was from both Nissan and the brake assembly supplier and it is the supplier who is absorbing the majority of costs so if anyone is having a problem it is more Dealer orientated then Nissan's.
I have to add that my dealer's service dept. has been very responsive and has never given any push back on questions and issues I have raised they have even replaced a burnt out bulb they didn't have to plus they replaced my leather captain seat after 15K because I pointed out ware. I never had the same kind of responsiveness from my F150 dealership that I had purchased 11 trucks from. If Nissan stopped honoring a warranty that would be an reason for a court action and or lemon law filling - I have a feeling from the detail nature of "razorthunder" he knows that and if he hasn't brought action there is a reason he is not articulating other wise he should seek damages.
My brother's F250's brakes went bad at 25k and Ford would do nothing, another friend who has a Titan has had none of the problems that I had. I love the driveline and non-cookie cutter looks and I will be getting the 08 later this year.
#369 of 485 Re: Brake Issues and Nissan [thebunk]
Mar 09, 2007 (10:16 pm)
In the last few weeks, I have spent alot of hours researching what owners and reviewers have to say about the Titan. It has been a emotional rollercoaster because of the polarized experiences Titan owners have had. Some, like razorthunder, have horror stories to tell concerning the problems they have experienced with their Titans and Nissan's failure to fix the problems. While others have nothing but praise for the vehicle and the dealer's service.
I figured with Nissan building it's first full sized pickup in an all new factory with alot of new workers there was bound to be some problems in the first few years. But I figured it would be a good test to see how Nissan would respond to the problems. Well, there has been the problems and Nissan's response has been mixed. It is hard whether to blame Nissan or the dealers or both. Nissan certainly isn't the only company to try to sweep problems under the rug. Like you, I have heard quite a few stories on the Super Duty brakes being bad and Ford not offering a fix. And Toyota's 3.0 V6 sludge problem which they didn't publicly acknowledge but settled under the table. And GM's V8 truck piston slaps. I personally don't get upset when a manufacturer issues a recall and fixes the problem right, but when they disregard the customer in favor of their own well being, then that is time to be concerned.
I, personally, have not ruled out buying a new Titan but I'm going to wait another year and try to get a little better understanding of what is going on before I offer up any of my hard earned money. I'm a retired guy who keeps a truck for along time so this next purchase of mine may be my last and I don't want it to be a nightmare. I'm interested in how a truck is going to hold together between the 100,000 and 200,000 mile span and the Nissan Titans have not been around long enough to know that. It will be interesting to see what Nissan has learned from this first endeavor with a big truck and what their redesign will be all about. I am looking forward to seeing and trying out the longer wheelbased Titans in 2008.
#370 of 485 Re: Brake Issues and Nissan [thebunk]
Mar 10, 2007 (10:07 pm)
Your absolutely right, I brought action against Nissan through BBB arbitration. I actually had to tow the vehicle to the hearing, because the computer failed for the 4th time just the night before the hearing, so the vehicle wasn't even in drivable condition. I presented a 20 minute case, and then Nissan conceded just prior to presenting their defense and settled on my terms. I am just awaiting the final arrangements, and will surrender the vehicle in a few weeks.
But I allowed Nissan, twice the amount of repairs then required by my states law. And, thank god my state offered a lemon law, since not all US states do. The more patience I showed the more Nissan seemed to try to take advantage of it and never addressed the real underlining issues. In fact to get the repair done correctly it would take multiple trips, i,e. when I got the computer (Body Control Module) replaced, it would take another trip to get everything reprogrammed right. Also Nissan would only repair/replace failed parts and not failing parts so the computer would have to completely fault and not just be faulting on occasion, or the transmission had to completely fail versus just slipping on occassion, and same with the brakes and other components. This put me needlessly at risk. It also left me stranded on two occasion, when I had told Nissan the computer was faulting and my instrument cluster would loss power, and I was unable to get the vehicle into park from drive, and remove the key from the ignition. Nissan had the vehicle for 3 days, and returned it to me "unable to replicate fault." I'm not even sure they really looked at the vehicle. Nissan was also in strict violation of federal law when they stopped honoring a written warranty but more importantly it puts my life needlessly in danger. Also, the further I got down the warranty period, the less compliant Nissan seemed of the warranty terms.
Yes, in the end Nissan and I settled the matter through BBB arbitration. I will get reimbursed for my out-of-pocket expenses on the brake repair and the cost of the vehicle. Nissan has been slow to act on the binding agreement but I can't blame them, I wouldn't want to buy this truck either. After the buy-back, Nissan and I will part ways, and I will never buy another Nissan vehicle, even though that was my fourth Nissan vehicle.
I would say, or at least hope, that I was an extreme case. Nissan North America does seperate themselves by stating "our dealerships are individually franchised and owned." Which is probably why there are polarizing experiences. But then I also called Nissan directly and they took no action. So that defense never really sat well with me. It was just an arguement to try to distance themseles from a problem.
I have friends who own Nissan Titans, and they are happy. They had base models were I has the LE 4x4. So I guess you become and good customer by luck of the draw, if you start developing excessive problems your dealership can turn on you quickly. I guess in the end the dealershipd try everything they can to prevent future losses, but when your talking vehicle defects there are also lives on the line. Properly fixing a vehicle for the long term versus minimizing losses really defines a company in my book. In the case of the Nissan brake defect, I think Nissan provided 36 month/36,000 mile solutions versus 10 year/120,000 mile solutions.
#371 of 485 Re: Brake Issues and Nissan [razorthunder]
Mar 10, 2007 (11:15 pm)
Good for you, razorthunder, glad you took Nissan to task for their shoddy and irresponsible treatment of your problems. What a shame a company has to act like that. Had they treated you well, you may have bought another Nissan from them. Now they have lost another customer for life.
I recently read elsewhere that many Titan owners who experienced differential failures were having a terrible time trying to get a proper fix to their problems. They even were at the Nissan factories trying to find out what Nissan was going to do about the problem and no one would give them a suitable response. Seems Nissan on the brakes and differentials did temporary fixes hoping to get the vehicles out of warranty, in some cases. Do you think that your dealer was to blame and/or was incompetent? Or do you put most of the blame on Nissan themselves? What vehicle do you plan to buy now that Nissan has settled with you? I feel for you. There is nothing worse than to pay good money for a truck you really like and have all those problems come at you. Hope you have a good experience with your next vehicle, you deserve it.
#373 of 485 Re: Help..Water in the cab body. [radgit]
Mar 26, 2007 (7:34 am)
down under your dash where your blower motor is a small hose that connects to you blower motor. That hose is for condensation from the blower. sometimes it get stopped up. It is the drain hose for the A.C. It runs through the firewall
#374 of 485 Re: Brake Issues and Nissan [razorthunder]
Apr 15, 2007 (3:35 pm)
Although I think you've been a little too repetitive in the forums, I must also say that I can understand your frustration and truly sorry to learn of your bad experiences. There are some that are really annoyed with you, but I think many of these people are in serious denial. I would bet that if the Titans problems were found on a Dodge, a Ford, or a Chevy they would be proclaiming the evils of those nameplates all day long.
I owned a Sentra for ten full years and it was the best car I've ever owned. When I was in the market for a pickup, the Frontier was the first one I looked at. Unfortunately it would not have met my requirements. My daughter is now on her third Nissan Altima and she's been pleased.
Unfortunately I know people that have had numerous problems with their Titans and I'm hearing bad things about other Nissan models as well. My neighbor has a new Altima and is having quite a problem getting things resolved by the dealer. She's near arbitration as we speak. I'm very disappointed in things I'm hearing about Nissan.
Anyway, I hope your new ride is much better and you have a much better experience.
#375 of 485 98 Frontier dash instrument failure
Jun 14, 2007 (12:25 pm)
The dealer has had my truck for 31 days and now says he cannot get the electronic module to correct my dash board instrument failure.
Can anyone help me find the boards and I will do it myself. I am an electronic technician
#376 of 485 Bad experience
Jun 24, 2007 (11:19 pm)
Initially I thought I will be a singular voice complaining about the Nissan customer service. Unfortunately seems likes there is a pattern with this company. I have a Titan I bought in 2004. Of course, almost from the beginning I started having problems with the brakes, so in the end the truck was at the dealership three times, until I pass 12000 miles. After another 5000 miles the problem reoccurred, however, because of the distance to the nearest dealership I wasnít able to take the car in for repairs (the service department requires one diagnostic visit, followed by the actual repair visit, during which a loaner car is not provided). Because the shaking became very annoying, last Friday (06.15.2007) I took the car finally to the service department of Nissan of Clovis dealership (where the car was for repairs before). There I was told that the car will not be repaired because is out of warranty for the brakes, and the extended warranty does not cover the pads. This was told to me despite the fact that the initial problem was never resolved. However the most embarrassing moment for the management of this dealership was the attitude of the service manager, who, during our conversation in his office, went on to tell me to shut up and listen to him. Also, when I asked to have the car brought back to me (the car was moved by the repair/service personnel) he told me to go take it from where I left it. Furthermore, when I said Iíll leave to go to the general manager, he started to tell that I cannot leave until he lets me do it.
Because the General Manager wasnít there I sent him a certified letter explaining what happened, and hoping at least for an answer that they received the letter. Didnít happen. So now I plan of complaining with NTHS and maybe BBB