Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Wagons Station Wagon vs SUV
1426 messages, Last post on Feb 21, 2007 at 8:37 AM
You are in the Wagons Forum. Your Host is kcram
|
it. People that know me know I have to ask. A GT wagon? A grand touring wagon? Can you have a wagon that is a GT or even 4 doors and a GT? How far behind is a Mini-van GT? I had trouble even saying sport and sedan in the same paragraph let alone sentence before. Can I go to dinner with some of my old friends who I wrenched for when we were club racing a 914-6 and say, I rode in a Subaru GT wagon today? I will get spit on if they are drinking something you know? If SUV has become a marketing term and has little real world meaning how much meaning can GT and wagon have? Ok, got that off of my chest. |
|
|
An oxymoron? I don't think so. Touring, especially overnight touring, usually also means bringing along some luggage. That being the case, what better vehicle to use than a wagon. Now if you include sporty handling and excellent power and comfort, what better vehicle is there than a wagon? Bob |
|
|
The original meaning (pre motor vehicle, then early motor vehicle) of the term Grand Turismo may have been related to "touring" but long ago, it was morphed into a race car term. See this link. AFAIK, that's the only way it's been used for cars since the GTO and Ferrari (Grand Turismo Omologato). So (good heavens), I may have to agree with boaz47 here  It does seem a bit odd to refer to a tall wagon (or a small SUV) as "GT". I understand it has performance to earn the term, but it seems odd. Has anyone driven the Forester GT and a sports car and could give a honest comparison of the handling of the two? I haven't test driven it myself yet (I hope to soon, in addition to the GSX wagon) or I'd give my own comparison of them to the RSX, which I just test drove. |
|
|
I can be narrow on some of these things. Sports cars used to be street versions of race cars. Mostly roadsters. Then we got the coupe designed for racing so we called it a sports coupe. The GT class also came out of a racing back ground. At this point I began to look askance at the term "sport" when attached to something that didn't come from sport in the first place. OK the GT was a sports car that had some room behind the front seat. The sports Coupe could also be a 2+2. A sports Sedan could simply be a two door with a post behind the driver and the back. But 4 door sports sedans? What is the first thing any racing team would do if they were going to race such a thing? Gut the rear door and seal it. It should be nothing more than an outline with just a skin covering the opening to avoid the weight of a door. But they did decide to race Sedans so I bit my tongue. Sport wagon detracted from the word attached to the car and screamed Madison Avenue to "me" and many of my friends. We would accept sporty buy Sport was quickly losing its meaning. I find the GT class in sports car racing very competitive and is one of my favorite classes. I like it better than the DP class. I even like GTS. Now picture what a enthusiast has to feel when someone decides to attach GT to a wagon. Picture the classic GTs you remember. Ferrari, Porsche, Corvette, Mustang GT 350 and 500. Ford GT-40. Wield a big square box on the back of any of those and try to convince any of us it is still a GT? No wonder they feel they can call a tall wagon a SUV and we will buy it. We will buy just about anything they tell us. Next Winnabago will be adding a wing on the back, putting 30 inch rims on with low profile tires and calling itself the Winnie GT 30. Because they put a heavy duty sway bar on it does not make it a sports car. It is the height of hypocrisy to condemn SUV drivers or owners for getting more vehicle they need just because of "image" and then turning around and buying into the image of the name GT for our family grocery getter. Because when a wagon runs into a true GT in the mountains or canyons and they driver of that GT has any driving ability at all the wagon will be shown for what it truly is. A wagon with a GT sticker. Makes the kids with their type R stickers seem legitimate. Forgive my rant, it is not aimed at any person in the room, only at how Madison Avenue is making Orwell's book come true. They can get us to believe anything if they just say it with a straight face. |
|
| In fewer words you have made my point. It isn't how they handle compared to a full sized SUV but how they handle compared to a GT. And it is ok, I see your points often as well. *S* | |
|
|
|
I'm new. Help me. I rolled and totalled my 2000 Outback - wear your seatbelt, it works. Perfect 360 off a gravel road in UT. Not my fault, seriously. So - New Forester (which I thought was kind of a grandma car a couple years ago, no back seat, etc....) or another Outback but not the 4cyl but the 6cyl? Anyone have real experience on the Subaru VIP proram ACA offers? Is it for real and a deal or can you negotiate better (or in addition). |
|
|
GT is different than sports car mostly in terms of extra comfort, and you pretty much assume a little extra luggage space. A wagon may be pushing the term, but... Forester GT is the 2.0l Turbo offered in other markets, it's rated up to 240hp. The US gets the 2.5XT instead, it's torquey but less powerful. They did not use the GT label, though. So, keep in mind we should not assume Subaru will even use the GT label, in fact they've been going away from it - WRX, WRX STi, Forester 2.5XT, etc. I think the "RS" label is the most honest, Rally Sport, because the engines and chassis are competition bred. The Forester, for instance, is used in Rally Reconnaisance runs, and to create course notes. -juice |
|
|
From a practical point of view the Forester is far closer to being a SUV, if the Honda CR-V and Suzuki Grand Vitara and Vitara are SUVs, than they are sports cars. With the slalom times of the Legacy sedan I think the Legacy wagon is quite a ways from a GT as well. I watch both Foreign sedan and American SCCA racing I have have seen Honda, Acura, a few Nissans, now and then a Mazda, some Ford Focus but very few racing Legacys. That being said it is nothing against the car or Subaru. It is something that has been said earlier in these forums. SUVs have morphed into something different than those of us that have had them believed they were. Mini suvs may be nothing more than tall wagons and wagons are little more than long hatches, like the WRX. I don't mind that manufacturers can't say station wagon without ducking. It just seems that calling wagons GT, something they can do because we are losing the meaning anyway, is just as silly as avoiding the term Station wagon. |
|
|
|
|
given the loss of clear distinctions between wagons, hatchbacks, SUV's, crossovers, trucks, etc., i cant get too worked up about the letters the manufacturers stick on the back of a vehicle. most bottom of the line current models are superior in many performance categories to "GT" racers of earlier years, so i guess i should just go to the winnebago GT discussion and keep an eye out for news of the winnie turbo. Mark |
|
|
Well then, you gotta get out and watch mike (paisan) drive. He's a wild man. He's in the NY/NJ area, though he runs NASA autocross, not SCCA. He used to run his dad's Legacy, and would routinly finish 2nd or 3rd in his class. And keep in mind it's a quicker class than the Maxima and Accord V6s compete in. His times were well ahead of those cars. This in an automatic 2.2l Legacy. He's now running a 2.2l Impreza and placing about the same, near the top every time. Clearly he's quick, and the driver has a lot to do with it, but so does the AWD. Wasn't is grass roots motorsports that ran an Odyssey against an E-type and another classic sports car, and the minivan won? -juice |
|
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
