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Station Wagon vs SUV

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#785 of 1426 by ballistic Jun 17, 2003 (1:09 pm)
boaz47 wrote, "Doesn't matter what the reason is, style, capabilities, power, size, image. It seems as if some people simply can not accept that others do no aspire to the smaller is better idea. I do not feel it is my place to determine how another enthusiast spends his or her money. If they want a 500 HP Viper and they have the money to buy it and drive it everyday back and forth to the same job I might drive a VW diesel that is their good fortune."   I would agree 100% with that - if vehicle fuel was aquired with coupons or vouchers, sold on a per-vehicle basis, that were priced thus:   $100 for the first 100 gallons per year; $500 for the second 100 $1,000 for the third 100 $2,000 for the fourth 100 and so forth.   - jb
#786 of 1426 Crossover or SUV by philly88 Jun 17, 2003 (1:36 pm)
Prior posts debated the difference between a wagon, SUV, and Crossover. Edmunds has a current comparison for Crossovers, and in the begining of the article they provide a description about what a wagon, SUV and crossover features are. It is the best difference description that I have seen to date comparing the SUV / crossover features.   When the question is asked why does someone buy an SUV when they don't need all of the capabilities, it seems the solution is the growing popularity of the crossover platform. Just like I bought a Rendezvous instead of a real 4x4 SUV. It has some features of an SUV, wagon, and minivan all in one. And it meets my needs better than any one of the others.   Anyhow, the article is a good one to help illustrate the differences.
#787 of 1426 That might work ballistic by boaz47 Jun 17, 2003 (1:39 pm)
and then we could tell who the very wealthy were every day. All the managers and bosses would drive big cars to work and the employees could drive Kia Reos. Cold I know, but that is just how things are. We could develop a cast system that makes India look like a democracy. People will work two jobs and decide not to have kids simply to afford what they want in life, be that a big car or a big house.
#788 of 1426 I would call by nippononly Jun 17, 2003 (1:43 pm)
Rendezvous a crossover - it is an FWD/AWD unibody riding on a minivan chassis. Score one for the crossovers! I don't think crossovers will fade in a few years like a fad - I think they will dominate truck-based SUV sales before too long. Certainly as soon as Ford takes Explorer to a crossover design.   I liked Edmunds' extensive use of the crossover term in the comparo. For the first time we have a third term to make a more meaningful conversation out of SUV trends, and I believe it is the crossovers that will sell well to families, not the SUVs.   ballistic: I love your gas pricing scheme! That is just like how the electric company charges for excessive use.
#789 of 1426 yes, boaz by nippononly Jun 17, 2003 (1:44 pm)
that would certainly be a big change, because we certainly can't distinguish the rich today as they drive around in their Mercedes and Lexus SUVs. Not.
#790 of 1426 by ballistic Jun 17, 2003 (2:26 pm)
boaz47 writes "and then we could tell who the very wealthy were every day. All the managers and bosses would drive big cars to work and the employees could drive Kia Reos. Cold I know, but that is just how things are. We could develop a cast system that makes India look like a democracy."   A token sense of social responsibility among millions of gas-guzzler buyers would, of course, make these sorts of horrific (in your view) outcomes utterly unnecessary."   "People will work two jobs and decide not to have kids simply to afford what they want in life, be that a big car or a big house."   Let me get this straight: You think smaller families, or even <gasp> more people choosing to be childless, is a terrible thing?   Spare me the 'it's my god-given right to consume conspicuously, no matter what I want and no matter how grave the consequence' rhetoric. It's folks with that mindset who will accelerate the scenario you just described.   Time to move into the 21st century.   - jack
#791 of 1426 by ballistic Jun 17, 2003 (2:45 pm)
nippononly says, "I love your gas pricing scheme! That is just like how the electric company charges for excessive use."   That pricing model will (and should!)increasingly become reality, for more and more commodities that are derived from nonrenewable resources.   There are altogether too many neanderthals who blindly refuse to recognize that times, and resource availabilities, are changing. All too often, the attitude is "it's a free country, so I demand my right to buy anything I want, no matter how extravagantly I might waste finite resources - I can afford it, so nothing else matters. Least of all the negative impacts my profligate consumption has on others."   It is precisely that obnoxious, unbridled, hedonistic attitude - not my objection to it - that will bring down upon all of us the exact kind of heavy-handed governmental restraints on our freedoms that so horrify the consumption-uber-alles crowd.   - jack
#792 of 1426 Has nothing to do with God given by boaz47 Jun 17, 2003 (2:50 pm)
right ballistic. You and I both know that people buy what they can afford, period. You have indicated a desire for a Audi RS-6. What 450 horses with a fuel rating somewhat less than many SUVs or at best on par with them? Morals strike both ways. Americans get the house, car, whatever based on what they feel they can afford. You may have pointed out already, or someone has, that SUVs and light trucks, represent 50 percent of the vehicles that sold last year. For the sake of Nippon we can include Crossovers. Now living where we do tell me how you expect to change the american buying habits? Do you believe appealing to them to accept someone elses moral judgment will have one slight effect on what they want of feel they need?   I like your idealism even if from a realistic point of view I know it won't happen. Maybe I have been around long enough to know that we as a society aren't willing to give up what we can afford as long as we can afford it. Poll your friends and see how many would vote to charge themselves more so someone else can have what they want. People just aren't that way. I can commute to work in my wife's car and get an average of 33 MPG. With that I would still need way more than 400 gallons a year. If I could afford it would I still live far enough away from the big city and pay $2000.00 a year? Yes I am afraid I would. Do I see any moral implication in that? Sorry, I don't and I doubt the majority of my fellow drivers will either, does anyone?
#793 of 1426 Aftermarket transfer case for the Forester... by rsholland Jun 17, 2003 (3:55 pm)
Why not just import the dual-range tranny, through some 3rd party?   Bob
#794 of 1426 And the beat goes on... by ballistic Jun 17, 2003 (4:11 pm)
boaz47 says "You and I both know that people buy what they can afford, period. Americans get the house, car, whatever based on what they feel they can afford."   Or, more often, how much they can borrow, often on 19% plastic, just to keep feeding that good ol' overconsumption frenzy. Delayed gratification? What's that? Why wait until tomorrow (when I might have actually saved enough to buy a sensible vehicle outright) when I can borrow enough for an Expedition or Escalade today? Won't it be grand, driving along (by myself) in it, or maybe with the wife and two kids rattling around in all nine seats, flaunting our freedom to behave irresponsibly. $40 to fill the tank? No problemo. Just pull out the plastic again. Smog makes sunsets look better anyhow - right? If OPEC tightens the screws again, or I get in over my head, I'll just let the bankruptcy court tell my creditors where to go, and then start the whole process all over again.   "You may have pointed out already, or someone has, that SUVs and light trucks, represent 50 percent of the vehicles that sold last year."   Thank you for making my point better than I could ever have done.   "Now living where we do tell me how you expect to change the american buying habits?"   It begins with better education . It includes, if necessary, ostracizing those stubborn recalcitrants who refuse to get the message that free markets depend for their very existence on some minimal degree of responsible decision-making on the part of consumers.   It ends, if large enough numbers of people continue to flagrantly disregard what should be obvious, with government-mandated incremental pricing for most resource-based commodities. Prices will no longer rise linearly with the amount you want, but rather rise exponentially. You want a McMansion or Escalade or 80' Cigarette boat? Go right ahead. Use ten times more gasoline or electricity or heating oil than your neighbor, pay 100 times as much. If you don't like that differential, change your behavior. If you refuse to change your wastrel ways, pay the piper.   "Maybe I have been around long enough to know that we as a society aren't willing to give up what we can afford as long as we can afford it."   The ominous writing on the wall is plainly visible, but apparently only to those who're willing to open their eyes and exercise a little self-restraint. Unfortunately, a not-so-distant future of real deprivation (or draconian restrictions on freedom, or both) will be brought on much faster - for all of us - by the thoughtless, selfish, ego-stroking excesses of those who cannot be persuaded to voluntarily moderate their wasteful ways.   Escalades, Expeditions, H2 Hummers and Suburbans (and S-Class Mercedes and other over-5,000-pound gargantuan gashogs), being bought maily for daily commutes by millions of faddish lemmings, simply happen to be the to be the clearest evidence of a grotesque, unsustainable binge.   It's time to go on the wagon.   - jack   Those of us who

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