Last post on Feb 21, 2007 at 9:37 AM
You are in the Wagons
What is this discussion about?
Aug 27, 2004 (8:51 am)
dc: the Marginal score was for the Legacy sedan. And 93% of Legacys are wagons.
The Outback wagon is higher up, that plus other differences may be why it scored the highest ever in Australia's similar side impact test.
Bizarre, since they are very similar, but just thought I'd point out the difference.
Aug 27, 2004 (8:54 am)
KC, it probably depends on which Subie you're talking about. I doubt the Magnum AWD will out-handle a Legacy GT wagon. Other Subies, perhaps (?), but not the GT. The COG is very low on that model, and it been reported to be a world-class handler by many.
Ahhh, I meant the Magnum vs an SUV, not any Subie.
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#1389 of 1426 Re: take the top off of a WRX ... [alfox]
by Stever@Edmunds HOST
Aug 27, 2004 (9:49 am)
I cut a Simca in half with a sabre saw back in the 60's. It deserved it.
#1390 of 1426 Re: Well, that's your view nitro, [alfox]
Aug 27, 2004 (3:15 pm)
"He could care less about 0-60, skid-pad G's, refinement or residual value (obviously!)"
Hmmmmm, haven't noticed residuals have been bad on Wranglers... Twould likely be better than any Station Wagon I can think of....
Aug 30, 2004 (7:25 am)
Wrangler is a unique vehicle, though.
If you look at other Jeeps, they're not so good at holding their value.
Back in 1998, I cross-shopped a Cherokee Sport with the Forester I ended up buying. The Grand Cherokee was $5000+ out of my price range.
Well, today, KBB has the value of my Forester not only above the Cherokee Sport, but even above the Grand Cherokee, by a good $800, too.
That means it has depreciated about $6000 more than my Subie.
#1392 of 1426 Re: Shopping around.. [dc_driver]
Sep 13, 2004 (2:47 pm)
We just bought a pilot and went through the same exact experience with Honda dealers in the San Francicso area. That said, I don't know about the long term quality of the pilot but I can't help but feel like I'm in a very well made vehicle. I'm impressed with everything it does. However, we traded in an 01 Montero for it so coming from that perspective, the handling and acceleration is superior.
The OB is a great vehicle and we have a '97 with 90k miles. We plan to have it till it dies. If we did not want larger vehicle (and 3rd row), the 05 OB would have been a strong contender.
For me, the pilot's HUGE plus over the HL was the packaging. If you get the pilot ex, you get everything. With the highlander, i think you had to get two packages to get the popular items. the tricky thing was finding one on the lot that did not also have all the other pricey dealer add-ons.
As far as bad dealer experinces, you are not alone. We went to one dealer that had a $4k markup over MSRP price. The only way to combat that is do your research beforehand and KNOW how much you want to pay. When I was unsure and doing test drives, the dealers seemed to smell it and want to wrangle and wrangle. When I decided that I wanted the pilot with navigation and I wanted to pay not one dime over $500 over invoice, I called five dealers, told them I was buying "today" and could they match my number. I got a return call, came in, endured (and rejected) the pitch for the extended warranty and paint protection, wrote a check and left after an hour.
Oct 19, 2004 (3:31 pm)
one wagon that has a lot of power is the new dodge magnum wagon with the hemi....nice to have the ability to turn off 2 (?) cylinders and save some gas....
the Audi Rs6 allroad with the 4.5 liter , 450 hp engine is a screameer too.....
#1394 of 1426 Wagon? SUV? Minivan? Hatchback????
Apr 08, 2005 (8:47 am)
I'd like the benefit of allthe thinking you guys have been doing. My old wagon just died and I'd like to replace it with a small/mid-size wagon or a hatchback. I am 6 feet 2 inches tall, 65 years old and not as "limber" as I used to be. I also weigh around 225, so seat comfort is a significant issue for me. I live in the Boston area, so AWD is a potential consideration, especially since we need to drive, at night, after performing. (though this is not a deal breaker for us) I need to carry a stand-up bass and amp, as well as a small amount of luggage (garment bag and medium suitcase) Because of the bass, a flat loading surface is a must. I also need to drive from Boston to Carolina in a few months, so I am concerned about how comfortable a small car will be on such a drive.
I almost never use the backseat, so it's not necessary that it be a comfortable backseat.
I really didn't like the Ford Focus or the Honda Element. Thought the Element's quirky styling appealed to my wife, the driving experience was not as good as we hoped. We also did not like the Ford Escape. The drive was just too trucky to us, and that is not something we are used to. The Dodge Magnum wagon is bigger than I want, I think, just to give you an idea of size. I liked the Pontiac Vibe, believe it or not, but it probably is too small.
My brother is telling me "just buy the Subaru Legacy or Forester."
99% of our driving is around the Boston suburbs and into Boston, with the occasional long drive. We aren't mountain goers. I am not a driving aficianado, so won't really appreciate any of the real driver's hatchbacks/wagons. I just want some good basic reliable comfortable transportation.
I would really like high MPG, but my brother is trying to convince me that since I really only drive 12,000 miles/year, there isn't a great cost to me of getting 25 mpg verus 35 mpg, and those 35 mpg cars might feel too uncomfortable for us in the long run (and on those long drives).
Thanks for any advice you folks provide, and best wishes.
Apr 08, 2005 (9:01 am)
Subaru's market share in the US is 1.1%. In parts of New England, it's 7%.
Those is the snow, know, Subies are great. The all-weather package (XS, LL Bean, or XT) includes not only heated seats, but also heated mirrors and wiper de-icers front and rear. AWD standard, ABS standard, rear LSD on all but the base model. Full-size spare tire, too.
For your needs I think the Forester is perfect. It has the most front leg room of any compact SUV, period. And the tight back seat is not an issue given you never use it.
Front Legroom / Vehicle
41.4 Grand Vitara
41.6 Santa Fe
You want something small, and it's about 175" long, small for the class. Curb weight is also comparably low.
The seats are firm with good side bolsters and adjustable lumbar support. Try them out, though, because we're all shaped differently, and for you this is make or break.
Lucien bought a Forester XT so that his wife's cello would fit! Coincidence. WRX wagon was a bit small for that.
CR named Subaru the most reliable brand for 2004. Ahead of Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti. Noone's perfect, but not bad.
Finally, 23/30 mpg in the non-turbos is pretty darn good for AWD, in fact that's also best in class.
Against? Smallish back seat, but you don't care about that. '06 model will get a face-lift, but if you like the 05 you can get a deal now because discounts are steep. And finally there are more efficient FWD wagons like the Matrix or Mazda3 5 door that might do the job almost as well.
You should drive one, though, to see if it fits your tastes. I recommend an XS or LL Bean model for you. It has all the inclement weather stuff you'd want.
#1396 of 1426 Re: Why Subaru? [ateixeira]
Apr 08, 2005 (9:11 am)
thanks for the input, juice - good advice
PS For those of you who know/remember me and who "care," I wrote this message in the first person, but it is my brother who is in need of the new car. I am the brother saying, "just buy the Subaru."