Last post on Nov 19, 2013 at 7:33 AM
You are in the Hyundai Sonata
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Sedan
#2095 of 3236 Re: Questionable Repairs - What to Do? [targettuning]
Jul 13, 2007 (3:12 am)
Thank you for your post, but you have things wrong. I replied to my initial post. I did not "wait" for the timing belt to break. It broke with 55K miles on it, so I didn't "miss" anything. They called it a warranty defect... that's an understatement. I get my car serviced. I've bought a new battery, new tires, oil changes, tire rotations, etc. It wasn't even CLOSE to 100K.
The year, make, and model of my car were in the post that I replied to. It is a 2002 Hyundai Sonata. Like you, I don't believe the dealership either. I guess my first step should be an appointment with the owneer of this dealership.
#2096 of 3236 Re: Questionable Repairs - What to Do? [sclark1]
Jul 13, 2007 (4:56 am)
One of the problems with a public forum like this is that complainers like you sometimes don't state all the "facts" or sometimes ANY of them so responders like me cannot piece together a "guess" and not even a good guess sometimes as to what may be wrong. I really don't know what to suggest. From what you say I think you may have serious engine problems. As to why the dealer cannot/will not suggest to you that maybe you should think about a new car I don't know but from what I am hearing that is what you probably need. I am going to try to reply to things item by item.
1. If you bought this 2002 Sonata new it has a 100K/10 year drivetrain warranty. If you have less than 100K miles it should be in effect. If you bought it used the original 100K warranty is not valid..it is valid for the original owner and is not transferrable BUT there still remains some portion of the original warranty. I seem to recall you bought it new or maybe it is another of the things I got wrong.
2. Hyundai recommends you change the timing belt 60K miles and if yours broke 55K miles it would indeed be a warranty issue. That means you should NOT have had to pay for that service however both engines Hyundai used that year in its Sonata (the 2.7 liter V-6 and the 2.4 liter, I think, I4 cylinder)are both interference engines. As I tried to explain in a simplified form earlier if your timing belt breaks while the engine is running the chances are excellent that certain internal reciprocating parts (the pistons and the valves) will clash together with bad results. Normally the timing belt keeps the synchronization of these parts in check and they continue to miss each other in a controlled little dance as the engine does its normal thing (runs). So, if that belt breaks the car will immediately stop (as you found out) but will incur SOME damage from relatively easily repairable (doesn't mean replace the belt and drive home) to severe which requires a major engine rebuild. I should state that timing belts USUALLY can continue to function well past the 60K suggested replacement Hyundai states. Auto manufactures like to err on the low side for things that potentially will cause major warranty costs for them i.e. rebuilding an engine under warranty. So, if yours actually broke at 55K miles and you bought the car new clearly (unless there are details I don't know about concerning your particular case) Hyundai is on the hook for subsequent engine repair/replacement. Your dealer isn't doing you any favors by simply not telling you that there was probably engine damage the first time around. I know for a fact that when a timing belt breaks on an interference engine SOMETHING always happens and the fact your engine even runs at all is a huge bit of good luck in your favor...the fact the dealer replaced the belt and sent you on a long road trip afterward is a major bit of stupidity. All this is in my opinion of course and no offense but there may be a big pile of "minor" details you haven't even stated.
3. Your engine is trying to tell you something by all the stalling...overheating..lack of power...etc. I think the message is: " I'm knock, knock, knockin' on heavens door" simply put it is on its way home to the big recycler in the sky. Temperature dash gages do not stick and even if they did it wouldn't cause overheating but simply mis-report it if it did. The fact there was no coolant in your car is certainly the reason for the overheating..a symptom but not the reason for no coolant in your car. If this is the second time the thing overheated and the second time the dealer had a chance to look at it then they ARE incompetent because 11 or more quarts of coolant just doesn't disappear into thin air. Do you notice puddles of green liquid where you park? This is just another symptom of impending engine failure that may lead back to the initial belt breaking.
4. All the other issues with your door pulls, battery (the white stuff is corrosion by the way and should be cleaned with vinegar) wiper blades and arm is,in my opinion, minor at this point and can be addressed if/when the engine survives.
5. YES, if you can present a linear case complete with documentation concerning your woes that started with the premature failure of the timing belt (that was clearly under warranty) and ended with the dealership sending you on your way with a faulty or damaged engine as a result of that premature failure and now results in a non-functioning, non reliable vehicle that has various issues including lack of power..stalling..overheating..mechanical noise then absolutely go to the top..the owner BUT go up the chain of command i.e. the service writer..the service manager...the general manager...the owner..and open a case file with Hyundai (generally they don't like to hear of dealers (their representatives in this country)screwing their customers. However, make sure you have "your ducks in a row" as they say because this particular dealer (if they are actually as incompetent/condecending to you as it seems from here) will certainly try to derail your case for an engine rebuild/new engine on some minor detail such as your lack of regular maintainence. Good luck. And remember that as you state I may indeed "have things wrong"...
#2097 of 3236 Re: Questionable Repairs [sclark1]
Jul 13, 2007 (5:02 am)
Oh my god it sounds like my car. If you go to Hyundai web site there is an area that you can contact them. You have to really search around for it. Contact them. I threatened to call BBB State Attorney Generals off, Dear Abby (LOL) anyone who would listen about the shoddy repairs and low quality vehicle. By all means go to the owner or manager of the dealership. Make sure there are potential customers in the show room and raise your voice. That is probably the quickest way for them to really pay attention.
#2098 of 3236 Re: Horrendous service and poor quality product [targettuning]
Jul 13, 2007 (5:15 am)
My dealership told me it has three timing belts. I would be more than happy to scan the repair bill for it. The mechanic that I actually trust also told me the vehicle has three timing belts.
As far as the oxygen sensor, the check engine light has not come on. We know something is wrong when sitting at a traffic light and the car starts to bump and surge that withing a few days the surging and stalling will start.
A dealer problem? This is my second dealership. The first dealership went out of business. I do condemn Hyundai, we also own a 92 ford that has not ever been on a tow truck has not had to be taken in for three oxygen sensor issues, two timing belt issues, body seal issues,or wheel bearing problems. I stand by the fact that this is a substand vehicle. It should be further stated that the 100,000 mile or year warrany is actually on 5 & 5 bumper to bumper. After 50,000 everything seems to fall apart and the dealership charges for all repairs.
#2099 of 3236 Re: Horrendous service and poor quality product [meg1962]
Jul 13, 2007 (6:03 am)
Please tell me the year,model,and engine of the Hyundai product you have. All 4 cylinder engines from all manufacturers have but one (1) timing belt. All that I know of that have a V-6 engine also have one (1). A longer belt certainly but still only one timing belt. I do not profess to know all things automotive but I believe I am correct about this however I am ready to be proven wrong.
Once again if your car is pre-1995 (in most cases) it has a diagnostic system called OBDI and this system isn't as complete as post 1995 (1996 up to present)OBDII systems. An OBDII system will almost certainly illuminate a check engine lamp if one of your oxygen sensors shows evidence of failure although sometimes if your sensor "flickers" a very brief period of momentary misbehaving (lets not call it a hard or permanent failure yet) it may store a code but not illuminate until things get worse. So, your car may still have a fault code stored that needs to be read in order to help diagnose the cause your symptoms. Of course it may be that you need new plugs or some other reason for the stalling. Just another reason to take it somewhere where the codes, if any, can be read and interpreted. Many auto parts stores e.g. AutoZone..Advance etc will read any codes as a customer service free of charge and of course your dealer will do it though probably not free.
Feel free to condemn Hyundai but my experiences with the brand is diametrically opposed to what you claim. Our Santa Fe has cleared 100K with only a digital clock replacement (the display randomly disappeared) within the first 5K miles and replaced under warranty AND our 2000 Elantra (that my son drives on a 100 miles per day commute) now has 160K+ miles with only an alternator replacement about 10,000 miles ago. So you have a 92 Ford that has been trouble free? Congradulations...I owned Fords(many of them) before Hyundai and replaced at least two transmissions..two or three AC compressors...lots of power window motors..a couple power door locks actuators..lots of alternators and on and on. So if you want to discuss substandard vehicles well, lets go!
A new Hyundai has a 100K mile/10 year drivetrain warranty as long as the original owner retains it. It is not transferrable to subsequent owners. It also has a 50K mile/5 year bumper to bumper warranty that IS transferrable to a second owner. The remaining balance is what gets transferred e.g. a 2 year old Hyundai with 25K miles still has 25K miles/3years remaining. There is probably some fine print mumbo jumbo involved with regard to maintainence but I believe the transfer is straight forward. This entire warranty package is much more that you can expect to get with almost..not almost... every other vehicle manufacturer. Even much vaunted Honda has a 3year/36K mile
warranty. So, no the 100K mile warranty is just that for the original owner and if used the remainder of the 5K mile/5 year bumper to bumper which may STILL be more than offered on a NEW Honda, Toyota etc.
#2100 of 3236 Re: Horrendous service and poor quality product [meg1962]
Jul 13, 2007 (6:29 am)
As a further rebuttal to your insistance that your vehicle has "three timing belts" I have researched using the Dayco website (www.daycoproducts.com). Dayco manufacturers belts (including timing and accessory) and hoses for the auto industry and the following information was found using a 2002 Hyundai Sonata as the base for reference.
1.) The 2.4 liter 4 cylinder uses three belts in total. Belt #1 drives the alternator and water pump and is Dayco part #5040373. Belt #2 drives the A.C. compressor and the power steering pump and is Dayco part# 5050547. Belt #3 IS the timing belt...length 65.60 inches Dayco part#95313.
2.) The 2.7 liter V-6 uses two belts in total. Belt #1 is a multiple accessory (serpentine)belt that drives multiple accessories. This means is drives everything including AC compressor, power steering pump, alternator. Its part number is #5060790. The second belt is the timing belt for this engine...#95315.
From this research I can determine that you have a 4 cylinder Sonata if it is a 2002 because it has three(3) belts in total but only one (1) timing belt. Probably a 2001 and 2003 on up as well have this belt configuration. So, you see that you cannot believe everything that you read,even if the dealership writes it.
#2101 of 3236 Re: Horrendous service and poor quality product [targettuning]
Jul 13, 2007 (6:41 am)
FWIW the Hyundai bumper-to-bumper warranty is 5 years, 60k miles, not 50k.
#2102 of 3236 Re: Horrendous service and poor quality product [backy]
Jul 13, 2007 (6:59 am)
Backy, I knew you would bail me out if I misrepresented something..thanks
And to you madam..this means your warranty is even better than I originally stated.
#2103 of 3236 Re: Questionable Repairs [meg1962]
Jul 13, 2007 (7:30 am)
Sreaming (raising your voice in all its various forms) probably isn't the best...first impression you should be making to a general manager or owner. I would instead quietly,and rationally present a well documented, linear case showing how things went downhill after "his" dealership "repaired" my vehicle multiple times and how it went from a reliable comfortable family transport to become a safety hazard when it stops at will, makes mechanical noise, has to be towed and generally makes you uncomfortable to drive. If all else fails picket in front...just kidding!!! And to "meg1962"..no wonder you have issues with reliable repairs at your dealership(s)... just kidding..not!!
#2104 of 3236 adjustable pedal
Jul 13, 2007 (8:25 am)
07 V6 loaded, 3000km.
Question on adjustable pedal.
1) Random sligth vibration on gas pedal.
2) Two occasions, felt a click sound on the brake pedal, like two pieces matched to a slot.
3) Noise from engine bay after few seconds of driving. Sounded like a test or calibration cycle for some mechanical components.
Are these normal or I am too sensitivie and picky?