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Honda CR-V, SUV
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#1356 of 6957 Tight situation - filter
Jul 16, 2004 (6:06 pm)
Hello - I'm a newbie with you all.
Glad to have this site to share some information, since I'm in the middle of the country.
First of all, I've changed oil & filters on my own vehicles for 30 years - some by dealers. The last CRV I had was a 1999 and it was relatively easy to reach the filter and wipe off the face on the block. The "new" 2004 we have is a tight reach•mayneed another joint in my forearm <G>
(axle shaft shroud in the way) to do my usual Mobil 1 in the future. Anyone else using the new Mobil 1 "0-20" after 8,000 mi.?
Since I had the first change in March 4900 mi. I really need a change 8,200 mi. In the past I've used Mobil 1, but now the concern is that since Mobil 1 0-10 claims it's a
legitimate replacement for "Honda, Mercedes, BMW etc." - wouldnt't this low viscosity under start conditions be even more fluid under cool conditions? The hardest part is reaching the block face to feel for smoothness if I change filters.
#1357 of 6957 Re: Tight situation - filter [smokehammer]
Jul 16, 2004 (7:38 pm)
Since I had the first change in March 4900 mi. I really need a change 8,200 mi.
Actually, your next oil change should be 9,900 miles. The Honda recommended oil change interval for your CR-V is 5,000 miles under "severe" conditions, or 10,000 miles under "normal".
Jul 16, 2004 (9:04 pm)
The reason SOME 2003 had this problem apart from mistakes made by the person changing the oil and the fact that the filter is over the cat. con.(like on many vehicles) is that they obviously had a run of filters made for Honda by their filter suplier that had defective glue holding the gasket in place or (less likely- were not given a film of oil on the gasket before initial installation). Since other CRVs did not receive this particular run of filters and other Honda and non-Honda models do not receive this filter model, they don't have the problem. Since this run was made specially for the new Honda installation (and painted blue instead of say Fram's usual orange colour) it would not affect filters installed after the first oil change. I have my doubts that it was caused by overtightening the factory filters because my '99 CRV and many other Hondas have come from the factory with rediculously tight filters but the gasket came off with the filter (whether you had to drive a screwdriver through it or not!)
Smokehammer - you don't need to see the mounting surface, just check the filter you just took off to see if any of the gasket material is missing. After 30 years of changing filters, I have only had this happen once (on an oil filter for my Honda GL1200 Goldwing motorcycle).
#1359 of 6957 Re: Why 2003 ? [defielding]
Jul 17, 2004 (10:57 am)
I am a little confused. The majority of the fires were not caused by the double gasket but by the oil filters at the first oil change being installed incorrectly - to loosely or not lubricated properly. Does this mean the oil filters installed at the time of the 1st oil change were defective? Also 5 of the fires were in the 2004 cr-v models. If you could clear up my confusion I would appreciate it.
Jul 17, 2004 (12:28 pm)
Yes jewels, it sounds as if the original filters supplied to the factory on a certain run,(which can be part of a single day's production of filters, since they make thousands of them in a day), were defective in that the rubber seal or gasket was not adhired sufficiently to the filter to come off with the filter when it gets taken off at the time of the first oil change and thus stuck to the mating surface of the engine. At the first filter change, the person changing the oil did not look to see if part of the gasket from the original filter was left on the mating surface (there usually are no pieces of the original filter gasket on there unless the original filter was defective due to the gasket not being glued properly onto the filter). Thus the person changing the filter became complacent after changing so many filters without worry and screwed the replacement oil filter at the first oil change onto the mating surface overtop of some of the first filter's gasket material, thus creating an insecure fit and allowing oil leakage. The oil leaked on the super hot cat. converter, caught fire and spread quickly. If some of the 2004s caught fire, they probably got some of what was left of the defective run of filters. This can also happen if the original filter was installed with no film of oil spread on the gasket where it meets the mating surface of the engine (although it usually won't stay stuck to the surface of the engine unless the adhesive that keeps it stuck to the filter is weak). Sorry everyone for such long posts, just skip them if I'm putting you to sleep.
Jul 17, 2004 (1:09 pm)
"No, I'm not sure that this is or is not a problem with other vehicles, and frankly, I don't care." - Cybernut
Then why do you keep bringing it up?
Why do I keep bringing up the fires? Because I'm concerned about them and I don't believe Honda - simple as that.
Your posts imply that there is some kind of defect involved because of these anomalies in the data. You shouldn't use that sort of thing to suggest a fault, then turn around and deny that it matters when someone shows that it may not be the truth.
Sorry - I must have missed something - I hadn't realized that any "truth" had been revealed yet.
"So far, I haven't seen any evidence to believe Honda."
Yeah, that would be the "guilty until proven innocent" school of thought.
That's your interpretation, not mine. I don't fully believe the reason that Honda has put forth. The thought that Honda technicians may be contributing to the problem, I have no problem accepting. But I think there's more, and you know, Honda thinks so, too. In the story that appeared in the Washington Post, it said: "Honda, whose products are consistently rated among the safest vehicles, doesn't know why the fires are happening in only the two most recent CR-V models, spokesman Andy Boyd said." And the article said that Honda is continuing to investigate. If that's being "guilty until proven innocent", so be it.
14 out the 22 fires that were investigated were found to have either a stacked gasket or a pinched gasket. There's your evidence.
That's evidence that of 22 CR-Vs that burned, 14 had one of two problems with the gasket. So? That just leads to more questions. Have those filter problems been identified as the sole cause of those 14 fires? What were the filters like on the other 8 fires? Is there anything that all the fires had in common? (and by that I mean, other than being '03 and '04 CR-Vs after their first (or second?) oil change)
I understand that some people on this forum have a vested interest in believing Honda's explanation - they may sell Hondas or be CR-V enthusiasts or whatever. My only concern, my only concern, is that I can be reasonably confident that our CR-V will be no more likely that any other vehicle out there to catch fire after its first oil change. I don't think that it's outrageous to expect a new vehicle from a manufacturer noted for their quality to not catch fire after an oil change.
Jul 17, 2004 (1:20 pm)
"What I would like to see is a little experiment - line up various models of Hondas, change the oil and oil filter improperly in each case, and see which, if any, catch fire."
If there are 300,000 CR-Vs on the road, and each one has had only 2 oil changes, that's 600,000 oil changes. And you expect a line up of vehicles with one bad oil change to automatically produce the results you're looking for? Good grief!
I have another suggestion. The article about the Honda CR-V fires in the Washington Post included this: "Honda concluded it was a technician's error, and they have taken steps to make sure service technicians who work on this vehicle understand that they need to be particularly diligent when they replace the oil filter," NHTSA spokesman Rae Tyson said.
My CR-V is due its first oil change next month. Anyone want to trade CR-Vs for a while? Only catch - you have to take it to a Jiffy Lube for the oil change ... and that's one of the ways Honda messed up with this - they say it's technician error, and they will make sure their technicians are more careful ... but how many CR-V owners go someplace other than their Honda dealer for oil changes?
#1363 of 6957 Re: Filters [defielding]
Jul 17, 2004 (1:58 pm)
Thank you Defielding,
Your post does clear up a few things for me. I don't mind long messages - I like a lot of detail.
Just for any ones information there has been a class action lawsuit filed concerning this matter. I about read it of the Honda CR-V forum.
#1364 of 6957 Honda-Parts-Dealer.com
Jul 18, 2004 (3:51 pm)
Has anyone used Honda-Parts-Dealer.com for parts? If yes, any favorable (or not) comments? thanks..
Jul 19, 2004 (7:37 am)
"Why do I keep bringing up the fires? Because I'm concerned about them and I don't believe Honda - simple as that.
No. That's not what I was asking. Why do you keep bringing up the other vehicles (Accord, Element, TSX..) other model years (2002) when you have no clue as to whether or not they prove anything?
Let me sum it up for you.
Varmint: Are you sure this hasn't happened with 2002 or other models?
Cybernut: No. And I don't care.
Varmint: Then why do you keep bringing them up?
"Sorry - I must have missed something - I hadn't realized that any "truth" had been revealed yet."
True. Which makes your accusations even more frustrating. As Racoon described it, you're adding oil to the fire when you have no clue. You've got nothing but inflammatory statements and nothing to support your claims.
Except for the fact that you are scared, you have no reason to suspect that Honda is hiding anything. All I'm asking is that you take a more critical approach to the issue before you start throwing around conspiracy theories.