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Subaru Forester vs Toyota RAV4

617 messages,  Last post on Nov 05, 2008 at 2:00 PM

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What is this discussion about? Subaru Forester, Toyota RAV4, SUV

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#518 of 617 Re: Forester on snow and Ice [ateixeira] by fjhandir Nov 29, 2006 (10:40 am)
Replying to: ateixeira (Nov 29, 2006 9:28 am) i am glad someone else has experienced that tail spin on subaru. My civic kinda went straight instead of turning but didnt do those uncontrollable tail spins.   my question to the forum remains: Which is safer on ice, 2WD RAV4 with on demand AWD or forester all time AWD? Replies to this message: ateixeira (Nov 29, 2006 10:43 am)
#519 of 617 Re: Forester on snow and Ice [fjhandir] by ateixeira Nov 29, 2006 (10:43 am)
Replying to: fjhandir (Nov 29, 2006 10:40 am) The honest answer is the one with better tires.   If you assume they're the same, i.e. identical tires on both, I'd give the Subaru the edge.   The AWD is full-time, so there's no waiting for a reaction to occur to adjust power after it's already too late, and slipping has already started.   The RAV4 does have stability control on more models, Subaru limits it to the Cross Sports XT, and that might offset Subaru's superior AWD system.   Close call, that's why I go back to the tires.   -juice
#520 of 617 Forester on snow and Ice by fjhandir Nov 29, 2006 (10:58 am)
given they have the same tires. wouldnt it be less likely for RAV4 to do a tail spin. My theory: When the front tires on RAV4 slip on a turn, it will tend to go straight instead of turning and thats when AWD kicks in and corrects it. On the other hand with subaru AWD front tires may not be skidding at all on a turn while the power in rear can cause the tail to spin (just like a rear wheal drive. But i am not an expert at all and hoping someone with some insight can through some light on it as i really would like to buy a subaru but the tail spin has thrown me off. Replies to this message: p0926 (Nov 29, 2006 1:34 pm) ateixeira (Nov 29, 2006 1:39 pm) p0926 (Nov 29, 2006 1:58 pm)
#521 of 617 Re: Forester on snow and Ice [fjhandir] by p0926 Nov 29, 2006 (1:34 pm)
Replying to: fjhandir (Nov 29, 2006 10:58 am) Well normally an AWD system that is proactive should be better than one which is reactive but if the proactive system enables you to go faster than the conditions permit... then go with the reactive one On the other hand, gently and smoothly applying power should prevent the tail from losing grip and if the rear tires DO start to spin, the transfer of power to the front should be that much faster when some power is already going there.   -Frank
#522 of 617 Re: Forester on snow and Ice [fjhandir] by ateixeira Nov 29, 2006 (1:39 pm)
Replying to: fjhandir (Nov 29, 2006 10:58 am) I like to play in the snow with mine to get a feel for it. For reference, it's a '98 Forester L, so basically it has a viscous coupling center diff (similar to the new models with manual trans) with two open differentials.   If I break traction, purposely, power cycles from front to rear, you can feel it. You can kick the tail out if you try, but just as that starts to happen the AWD shifts the power to the front axle and it pulls you out of the skid.   Basically you won't spin out unless you're trying too hard.   Funny thing is I have a bigger-than-stock rear sway bar, 18mm instead of 13mm. So mine actually has a greater tendency to oversteer than the stock suspension, and it still won't swap ends.   Theory is great, but in practice the Forester is an excellent companion in the snow. Both fun and safe.   -juice Replies to this message: p0926 (Nov 29, 2006 1:58 pm)
#523 of 617 Re: Forester on snow and Ice [ateixeira] by p0926 Nov 29, 2006 (1:58 pm)
Replying to: ateixeira (Nov 29, 2006 1:39 pm) Yeah I've played in the snow and ice too and the tail will definitely kick out under full acceleration but keeping on the gas will pull it back into line. Of course that's in a wide open area with nothing to hit If I were at a light and floored it causing the rear to slide out, then panicked by hitting the brakes... well for sure that would cause a complete loss of control as it would induce the tail to rotate all the way forward into a 180 degree (or more) spin.   -Frank
#524 of 617 Oh yeah by paisan Nov 29, 2006 (2:03 pm)
With subies you need to be on the gas a bit to have the power shift, otherwise you are skidding like any normal car. A bit of power will let the power be shifted to where it needs to go (if the power = zero, there is nothing to shift to a wheel/axle with grip)   -mike
#525 of 617 proactive vs reactive AWD by fjhandir Nov 29, 2006 (7:33 pm)
So i guess the answer is that subys are great on ice if you know what you are doing but they can cause a spin if you press too much gas and then take your foot of the gas in a panic. Honestly, this is a very likely scenario if my wife is driving. How about RAV4 , is there any such downside to them and in what circumstances a proactive AWD is better to have than reactive one?   Thanks. Replies to this message: kdshapiro (Nov 29, 2006 7:46 pm) ateixeira (Nov 30, 2006 11:16 am)
#526 of 617 Re: proactive vs reactive AWD [fjhandir] by kdshapiro Nov 29, 2006 (7:46 pm)
Replying to: fjhandir (Nov 29, 2006 7:33 pm) Are you referring to sheet ice or snow on top of ice? I think the RAV4 has a reactive front wheel biased AWD system. If you press to hard on the gas, the front-end will spin and transfer to the rear wheels. How much spin depends on how much gas and the conditions. Some of the RAV4 models also come with an ESC type system will which help mitigate the spin, but could become annoying. The Forester XT sport also has an ESC type system.   If you are driving on more snow than ice, I don't think there is an issue with any vehicle and proactive AWD will keep the car moving and probably perform better. But I would get a car with an ESC type system.   Driving on sheet ice all bets are off for any vehicle under the sun.
#527 of 617 Re: proactive vs reactive AWD [fjhandir] by ateixeira Nov 30, 2006 (11:16 am)
Replying to: fjhandir (Nov 29, 2006 7:33 pm) Something with stability control might be better for someone like that, but I'd take her to an empty parking lot and have her practice car control just a bit no matter what you end up with.   -juice

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