Last post on Nov 05, 2008 at 3:00 PM
You are in the Subaru Forester
What is this discussion about?
Subaru Forester, Toyota RAV4, SUV
#192 of 617 Thumbs Up to Stamford Subaru
Feb 19, 2006 (12:04 am)
I, too, have been faced with this choice. I also looked into the Honda CR-V, Honda Element, and read about a wide variety of other potential contenders --- but it came down to the RAV4 and the Forester. I have a 1998 Forester which I love but I wanted to get an update --- the idea of buying a different car appealed to me (sometimes it's nice to have a change of pace).
I personally love manual transmissions, so I was skeptical of the 2006 RAV4 and its automatic-only design. However, on a test drive I was pleasantly surprised --- this is a superbly tuned automatic transmission, shifting just when you'd like it to shift, without that auto tranny lag that I hate so much.
There are lots of nice touches to the RAV4 --- like the little handles that let you fold down the rear seats from the rear access, etc. The interior is larger than the Forester, so one would imagine a bit more utility as far as hauling stuff.
However --- the RAV4 is over a foot longer than the previous version, which some might find appealing but it makes it half a foot longer than the Forester. I live in a place where I frequently need to parallel park, so half a foot can make a big difference when it comes to squeezing into a tight spot. Yes, the RAV4 has more cargo space but frankly I've found my 98 Forester surprisingly capable when it comes to hauling loads of stuff.
The 2006 Forester handles really well, as always, but it's clear that Subaru has spent some time tuning things since 1998 --- it's even more sprightly, even more responsive. The 2006 base engine is clearly more powerful and has more usable torque earlier in the RPM curve than it used to --- the RAV4 4-cylinder engine is more than adequate but still, not quite the same feel as the Forester. And the Forester has higher ground clearance than the RAV4.
RAV4 also has a peculiar part-time AWD system that is supposed to instantly activate when needed --- but I prefer the Forester's always-on "symmetrical" all wheel drive --- when I hit that patch of black ice around a blind curve, I don't want to wait even that tiny fraction of a second it might take for the RAV4's AWD system to decide it is needed. I like the fact that the Forester now has limited slip differential standard in every model --- something my 98 model lacked, which would have come in handy during the last snowstorm (it still handled the snow very well, but there were moments when a limited slip diff clearly would have been an advantage).
The clincher, however, for me was Toyota's bizarre inventory allocation policy. In New York, where I live, there are no RAV4 Sport models with side/curtain airbags (absurd, no?) That is something that will likely change --- but it is obviously a stupid attempt to force people to buy the more expensive Limited --- but if you're like me and want sporty performance, you want a Sport, not a Limited, which has things I don't want (leather seats --- never liked that) and lacks things I do want (sport-tuned suspension). What's worse, a Toyota dealer (*****Westchester Toyota --- avoid them like the plague!*****) told me that they had two RAV4 Sports with side/curtain airbags but they didn't --- despite the fact that I TWICE called before making the long journey there from the city to ask them to check it. I believe they were engaging in bait-and-switch tactics --- I actually asked the girl, "Tiffany", what the MSRP was of these supposed RAV4 Sports, and she told me $25,430, *which is what the Sport would have cost with the options I wanted* --- but of course when I arrived at the dealer, they didn't have it, and the salesman explained that "Tiffany" doesn't sell cars so she doesn't know what she is talking about, trying to make it seem like an honest mistake (after a $30 cab + train ride and an hour of wasted time) --- yet the fact that she gave me a fabricated list price and insisted on telling me that she had "checked with the sales manager" makes me think this is part of a calculated bait-and-switch ploy on the part of this dealership. This and Toyota's practice of allocating different vehicles to different markets (so I'd have to go to Philadelphia to get a car I wanted) was the last straw --- I stuck with my tried and true brand, Subaru, and bought a Forester 2.5X Premium at Stamford Subaru --- an *excellent* customer experience, I highly recommend them if you live in the area. No nonsense, friendly, conscientious, straightforward, no hard sell. Amazing.
#193 of 617 Re: Thumbs Up to Stamford Subaru [mitsuh]
Feb 19, 2006 (9:12 pm)
Sounds like you got what you wanted.
Good luck with your new Subie.
#195 of 617 Re: Cross-shopping... [micktink]
Mar 18, 2006 (6:37 am)
IMO there is nothing out there comparible to the quality, sportiness, safety and fun factor of the FXT. I am not saying that there are not vehicles that may be more comfortable or shinier.
I drove the Rav, CRV, Pilot, and just about every AWD/4WD vehicle and I can honestly say that the FXT out did them all as a complete package. The bonus was that the dealership knew their product and it was a no hassle deal.
#196 of 617 Re: I picked the Forester [baydrive]
Mar 20, 2006 (9:47 pm)
I have friends who are signing on an '06 Forester X tomorrow after also test driving the RAV4 4-cyl and the CRV. Forester has the best safety, best performance, best fuel economy (essentially tied with the RAV), best handling and best price. Plus no resin-finish bumpers, so it looks more upscale. Its only downside was its smaller, lower backseat.
Add in the March $2000 rebate on the X model and it was an easy decision for them. They're paying about $2500 less than a base LX CRV, and the base RAV was even higher, more so after adding in options: roof rack, fog lights on both and airbags & daytime running lights on the RAV. All standard on the Forester. Sure it's due for a makeover, but it's still on-par or better than the competition in most areas, and is by far the best value.
#197 of 617 Re: I picked the Forester [jeffmc]
Mar 21, 2006 (12:30 am)
Can I ask how much your friends are paying for the Forrester? I'm getting $19,800 + TTL + a few minor options for the Forrester (rebate already accounted for); very similar for CRV (I expect $20K with options, like roof rack etc). RAV4 is up there (due to alloy wheels, roof rack, side airbags/side curtains) at about 3K over Forrester. But it seems CRV and Forrester are pretty close right now at least in base price. (I'm comparing Forrester X to CRV-LX to RAV4 Base -- all in AWD or 4WD).
#198 of 617 Re: I picked the Forester [kc456]
Mar 21, 2006 (11:52 am)
They're paying $19,196 + TTL, and, like you, are adding a few minor options on top of that. That makes the Forester $2600 below invoice (after $2000 rebate).
Best offer on the CRV was $500 over invoice, which would be $21,504 + TTL. Add on the roof rack and fog lights (standard on Forester) for another $500, and suddenly you're $2800 more than the Subaru. And the CRV had by far the weakest engine of the three, plus the worst gas mileage. I did like the utilitarian interior design of the CRV, though, better than the RAV's modern dash. Forester was somewhere inbetween, nice and clean though.
I highly disliked the side-opening rear hatch on the CRV and RAV4 - I parallel park regularly and would often not have the huge amount of room required to swing those doors open. I was able to open the Forester's hatch with less than a foot of space between it and the car behind it. Also, the side-opening rear hatches block the curb side of the vehicle, so you have to walk all the way around the hatch when you're loading or unloading, again requiring even more space. The side-opening hatches also allow the rain/snow to get in, while the Forester's hatch provides a nice shelter. Also, there's no lip to the rear bumper on the CRV and RAV, so unless you open the rear hatch, you can't step there to secure anything to the roof rack or to wash the vehicle. And the rear-mounted spare tires on the RAV and CRV stick out farther than the bumper, so if there's an impact with anything higher than two feet or so, the tire and door take the brunt of it.
Sorry about going on like that - can you tell I didn't like the rear hatches of the RAV & CRV?
#199 of 617 Re: I picked the Forester [jeffmc]
Mar 21, 2006 (1:40 pm)
Doh! Realized my first post was a reply to a message from Oct. '04! Sorry 'bout that. Just a little untimely.
#200 of 617 Re: I picked the Forester [jeffmc]
by steve_ HOST
Mar 21, 2006 (2:25 pm)
It's nice to have the numbers updated. I must admit that having hatches that open up on my minivans and wagons over the years has pretty much spoiled me on that issue.
#201 of 617 Re: I picked the Forester [kc456]
Mar 22, 2006 (11:52 am)
We just picked up our automatic transmission Forester X in blue. What a sweet color! It had the compass/mirror, mud flaps, cargo tray, bumper guard and netting options, bringing the MSRP to $23,867, invoice $22,200.
I insisted they take $5000 off MSRP(which includes $2000 factory rebate) in order for the price to become competitive with what Honda CRVs go for. I guess to meet their March 31 fiscal year sales goal, they finally caved in. 6 other dealers flat out refused to sell under $19,500, as this is their cost factoring in the $700 holdback. Who knows what Subaru is kicking back for meeting sales numbers, so taking this into account, I really doubt that they "lost money" on my transaction.
Also, when comparing the AWD Forester X to the Honda 2-WD CRV LX, realize that AWD is worth at least $1000. In addition, when you sit inside the CRV, and say to yourself, "wow, this is really spartan", there is a reason. You have to "accessorize" the CRV to a tune of $1000 to make it as refined looking as the base Forester.
Here is a table of what is missing in the CRV LX, with Honda's MSRP as well as street numbers for each accessory. Note that you would have to spend your weekend installing these, as labor is extra:
Honda Accessory Honda MSRP Street Price
Roof Rack $262 $208.75
Security System $228 $170.00
Fog Lights $329 $248.75
Cargo-Area Cover $189 $143.75
Metallic Trim Kit $199 $148.75
Total $1207 $920.00
In addition to these standard Forester X items, I have the following options installed, and still came in below what a base CRV LX sells for. It would take another $400 to make the CRV LX equivalent:
Honda Accessory Honda MSRP Street Price
Auto Day/Night Mirror $279 $215.00
Front Splash Guards $63 $38.75
Cargo Tray $105 $78.75
Rear Bumper Cover NA NA
Chrome Exhaust Finisher $29 $18.75
Cargo Net $42 $31.25
Total $518 $382.5
So all in all, the Forestor really is a "best buy", and those smart enough to not cave in to "herd mentality" and opt for a CRV, will be more than rewarded by the Forester's "fun" drivability factor .