Last post on Dec 10, 2013 at 1:25 PM
You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
What is this discussion about?
Honda Accord, Coupe, Sedan
#31376 of 32216 Re: 2014 Honda Accord EX - L 4CLY [gmanusmc]
Sep 27, 2013 (11:51 am)
Bill, I think you are misreading Brian's response. I believe he was responding to Isell's claim that it's just a matter of supply and demand. I'm sure you will agree, supply and demand applies only in a macro sense, you can certainly get a good deal if supply is high and demand is low but no dealer is going to volunteer that at first, they will wait to see if the customer bites. Yes, the uninformed buyer may not take advanatage of the supply/demand dynamics but the dealer will if demand is greater that supply and will not acknowledge it when supply is greater than demand.
#31377 of 32216 Re: Price pd on 2013 EX-L Accord [etienne39]
Sep 27, 2013 (11:59 am)
Etienne, there’s no reason why I should need to call Holler Honda about their “Return” policy. Don’t you have all the legalese in the documents you were given when you purchased your car or did your “experienced salesman” conveniently omit that from your packet? You can post that for our review. No doubt, unless you asked for it upfront, it was not provided to you since you would clearly see it would not be economically feasible to exchange the car.
Sorry to inform you, but you should know that “experienced salesmen” don’t exactly have a reputation for honesty, integrity and transparency. I’ll break the news about Santa Claus and the tooth fairy another time
#31378 of 32216 supply and demand
Sep 27, 2013 (12:39 pm)
That was exactly my point. isell loves to stir me up. he loves it......lol
I even stuck up for the car salesman about lying to them. I pointed out that poster was going about negotiating the wrong way.
I may negotiate hard and play dirty but every dealer i talk with knows exactly where i'm comming from. So the ball is in his court til he plays games. Honest answers get my respect. I'm not Bob. You dont want to be like bob not doing his homework 1st before buying.
That is the problem today to many dealership think everyone is like bob.
#31379 of 32216 Re: 2014 Honda Accord EX - L 4CLY [huskerfan5]
Sep 27, 2013 (12:40 pm)
Brian and Huskerfan - I understand what you guys are saying. My point is that I can't fault the dealer if he/she wants to sell their product to uninformed Bob for x dollars when the "market" is calling for x minus y dollars for "informed" buyers. I'm a little skeptical of the "God bless the dealer" remark - I'm not sure that's your actual sentiment Brian - I think you've made your feelings about dealers and sales folks pretty clear (believe me, I'm with ya on that in a lot of cases). Something I'm glad about is that some of the folks who don't know their way around car buying eventually make their way into these forums and we old guys are able to help out. Look how fast blue caught on - and now he's helping out other folks. I can't help but think that the uninformed population is decreasing steadily. All that being said, I doubt that Isell is losing any sleep because we are all getting better at our part of the game.
Take care guys,
#31380 of 32216 Re: Price pd on 2013 EX-L Accord [huskerfan5]
Sep 27, 2013 (12:43 pm)
What about Santa - what? Did you hear something?
#31381 of 32216 Re: Price pd on 2013 EX-L Accord [gmanusmc]
Sep 27, 2013 (12:57 pm)
Yeah, he's giving out Accord Tourings to all the prolific posters in this forum
#31382 of 32216 Re: supply and demand [brian125]
Sep 27, 2013 (1:23 pm)
brian, I met a lot of "brians" in my lengthy retail career and I never lost a wink of sleep.
I don't "love to stir you up" either. I know you think you have all of the answers and I sincerely know that you mean well.
You have dispensed some well intentioned advice that in a lot of cases simply won't work. I used to have to deal with customers who would read forums such as this one and come to me expecting prices that just wouldn't happen. Only after driving over half the state and going nuts the harsh reality would hit them that they couldn't buy cars for what "other people were paying".
As the 2013's become fewer and fewer, prices will actually go UP. This happens every year.
Now, let me ask you a question that I've asked several times over the years here. I've never received an honest answer.
Suppose you had a used car for sale yourself. Let's say it's a nice car and you price it with some wiggle room assuming people will want to grind you down on the price.
You advertise it for 12,000 knowing that if necessary you would take 11,000 or maybe even 10,500. At 12,000 it's priced about were it should be according to NADA, KBB and other sources.
But, it does have a couple of blemishes and the A/C isn't blowing as cold as it once was. Still, overall, a pretty nice car.
The first day of your ad, a guy shows up and tells you..." I'll take it! Here is your 12,000!"
Would you shake his hand and take the money?
Would you say..." Ah...gee...don't you want to offer less?"
Would you think you did something wrong, were a crook or underhanded?
If a customer pays (gasp) MSRP for an Accord, there is around a staggering 8-9% profit in it. If he buys a Honda Fit, there is around a 4-600.00 profit.
I'm just curious if you think car dealerships should be non profits?
#31383 of 32216 Re: 2014 Honda Accord EX - L 4CLY [brian125]
Sep 27, 2013 (1:31 pm)
Brian, If there are a lot of people like "bob" out there willing to pay the market price WHY in the world would they sell to a person like yourself who would offer much less than market value.
I have no pain, just amazement at your logic.
If houses in your neighborhood were selling quickly for 500,000 would you sell yours for 350,000?
#31384 of 32216 Re: 2014 Honda Accord EX - L 4CLY [isellhondas]
Sep 27, 2013 (4:19 pm)
I agree with you on supply/ demand, market price -value you take all that into consideration when buying a new Car, House, Boat etc. Everything you are saying is preached in this forum. Use common sense . Use the knowledge to help get you the best possible deal. Folks in here want to find out how do you find that better pricing??. Why is current pricing at this price. Thats whats addressed in here. We the few that get better pricing is a very small % compared to the rest of car buyers. Stop taking it personal when i tell folks to by pass the salesman and deal on line or directly with the int. mgr.
New generation of car buying have changed this business and this is how you work your best deal today. Find those internet friendly dealerships work out pricing thru emails / phone calls first. Once you find out what the selling market value is in your state and surrounding area's that is your playing field and your negotiation leverage.
Stop identifying me with bob. I'm not him or 99.9% of any one you negotiated a new car purchase with in 13 years............. Thats your first mistake. Being a educated buyer, factoring in supply and demand, knowing area pricing / how and when to buy is the key to making a great car deal along with your target price to buy..
We could disagree all day from both sides of the table. Folks can pick there buying style and what ever tips they find helpful and move on. I know what works for me the last 40 years and only speak from experience that has helped many. I too have heard everything in the book from the dealers side of the sale.
Please stop attacking me on one sentence i write or one phase of the buying process. If i'm trading in a car thats worth 12k and dealer offers me 11k or 10.5 I'm taking it. Do you know why? I was to lazy or stupid Not to sell my vehicle on my own. I get what i deserve..... i move on. To find the best price i get several dealerships involved to see who offers the closest price to the 12k trade.
Dealerships try to make as much money off the consumer. We on the other hand try to get the lowest possible price. How far you want to go on that low price is your preference. We play the game set up by the car companies. When honda tells its customers our hondas are xxx price buy 1 buy 10 same price then all this game playing ends. Until then we play by the rules. Works both ways .
Sorry to the forum reader's i have to keep justifying my self to isell.
Good luck this weekend on your car purchases. I hope we made a difference for you with pricing..
Let get back to 2014 sale prices..
#31385 of 32216 Re: supply and demand [isellhondas]
Sep 27, 2013 (4:57 pm)
Isell, let me take a stab at the question you posed to Brian
First, like any business, a car dealer should make a fair rate of return. After all, there are risks. Ask anyone who owned a Pontiac, Saab, Saturn, etc. dealership.
I also realize that any well run dealership will have a budget of revenue and expenses. I also understand that unlike a typical retail store, sales prices fall on a bell curve. Some people will pay around MSRP or more, some savvy buyers, if the market conditions are right, will get a steep discount and most others will pay something in between. I realize it is to my advantage that some uninformed buyers pay on the high end so I have an opportunity to pay on the low end, so as much as I like to advise people who ask for advice, I do not plan a crusade to educate everyone else.
As for your question, my honest answer is “it depends.” A few years ago, my friend was selling his son’s Mazda3 after he moved into NYC. I think he was asking $10K and a young school teacher offered him $9.5K and she needed to get a loan. She was really excited about the car and he accepted. Later that day, he got a call from someone who offered $10K cash, sight unseen. He turned him down even though the deal with the teacher was no sure thing. He mentioned this all to me afterwards and asked me what I would have done. I would like to think I would have made the same decision but I’m not in the same financial situation he is in so until I’m actually faced with that dilemma, I can only speculate. Obviously, my friend is not cut out to be a used car salesman.
Net, net, if faced with your example, I guess I would size up the people and would probably rationalize accepting the $12K if I thought they could afford it or had an attitude I didn’t care for and perhaps give a break to someone I had a good feeling about but appeared afraid to bargain.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the management of most, if not all, car dealerships want their sales people to sell at the highest price they can get? Unless I was selling Ferrrari’s, Rolls Royces etc. and didn’t care about what people paid, I couldn’t be happy being a car salesman and I couldn't do what you did for so many years. Incidentally, my wife is a social worker with a MSW, helping people in need while earning a small salary. She's at one end of the spectrum, guess I'm in the middle, and I would think that the typical car salesperson would be towards the other end. Where do you think the typical car salesman fits in and you yourself?