Last post on Dec 10, 2013 at 1:25 PM
You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
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Honda Accord, Coupe, Sedan
#30696 of 32216 Re: 2013 Accord LX CVT [akronoh77]
Aug 28, 2013 (2:39 pm)
ok, so you're are getting those numbers over and over. What you need to do is read our posts to you over and over because you don't seem to be getting it.
If the salesman gave me that quote, the first thing I would have asked him was to get the sales manager and then ask the manager why am I being quoted an OTD purchase price when I want to lease the car. I would inquire about the money factor and residual and the components of the capitalized cost and since selling price is a key component, I would start my negotiating there.
If I recall correctly, when I ran your numbers, using your target of $19,600 and all the fees/taxes, the number was $225, so your $230 target makes it about $19,750. You have no chance to get it because you have not earned their respect as a buyer. They are still treating you like you don't know what you're doing by giving you the same numbers.
Brian will get a great deal because he commands their respect. When push comes to shove, the dealer knows it has to meet his terms to make a sale. They may not choose to and Brian will walk but if someone will get that deal, it would be him. It won't be you, because based on how you have come across so far to the dealer, when push comes to shove, he believes you will be the one who will give in. So he will never, ever give in to you. That's why I suggested you start fresh at another dealer.
#30697 of 32216 Re: 2013 Honda Accord Sedan EXL [accord2013elx]
Aug 28, 2013 (3:27 pm)
Thanks for the clarification.
I am doing all initial negotiations via email.
$24,900 is a very good offer. The final sales price you worked on with Bernadi for 3 weeks was $1609 below invoice. WOW, I would have jumped on that no questions asked.
Armed with this new information, my plan is to get a little more aggressive when negotiating with Prime Honda. I offered them to buy today for $1500 below invoice with $500 Flex cash for financing through Honda. I am waiting for a counter offer, but I am hoping that I can make this deal happen.
I made that same offer to Atamian Honda and they turned me down, but they said they will let me know if the sales price changes next month.
Both dealerships have the color combination I want, so I do not want to wait till next month when the stock on the EX-L gets even lower.
Anyone else in MA getting good deals/sale numbers?
Aug 28, 2013 (11:11 pm)
A few data points from my experience in NJ and NY last few days. I found many dealers reluctant to use flex cash for EX-L. Best offer I came near (and even then very contingent and not in writing) was $25,600, which goes to $25,100 w/ flex. I believe Bryan posted earlier that some Maryland dealers were giving more aggressive pricing this month and at least one dealer (Ourisman) offered better than any other NJ/NY dealer I've seen. HOWEVER, I've discovered internet department offers can be vapor, they seem mainly set up just to pull prospective buyers in, at which point floor sales staff will just revert to their normal pressure and obfuscations, disregarding or even disclaiming representations from the internet department RE: base price, availability of flex, colors in stock etc. This is a completely separate issue that seems worth investigation by consumer finance protection agencies since all dealers seem to be employing these "internet sales" departments as mass-market agents now.
In the end I did find a NY dealer that gave me just over 1K off invoice + some flex but it was a horror show. I also agree with an earlier post that NJ dealers are among the most distasteful. Newbies should also not trust any "market price" figures from the TRUEcar site, it does not provide objective data because it partners directly with particular dealerships that give the site a substantial kickback for leads that convert to a sale.
I hope Brian and others that have been trying to help make pricing more transparent on these forums are right that dealers become much more rapt when they need to book sales at the end of the month, I'm also interested how much they will push to clear 2013 inventory this Aug & Sept. So far I have had a hard time finding $1k below invoice + flex in NY/NJ, good luck to the buyers & please keep reports coming.
#30699 of 32216 Re: 2013 EX CVT buying [oldrover]
Aug 29, 2013 (3:05 am)
My daughter is a chemical engineer. She almost fell to the floor with laughter several years ago when I first encountered dealers who push nitrogen in tires. Air is nearly 80 percent nitrogen without any assistance from the dealer. Google nitrogen in tires to see exactly how silly this profit grab really is. And $130 is very close to theft, IMHO.
I had nitrogen in one vehicle, the tires were enhanced with a bit of nitrogen when I bought the vehicle. Absolutely no difference with normal air filled tires. I would never pay a dealer for this charade.
Personally, I avoid any dealer who attaches an addendum with overpriced items I did not order to their vehicles. This is simply one more profit grab by the dealer. IMHO, this tactic casts serious doubt upon the overall integrity of the dealer. I shudder to think what games those dealers will play in the F&I office.
Always good to recognize the single area of any car dealership where a customer can be confused and mistreated is the F&I office. That friendly person across the table is the dealership's top sales person whose job is to wriggle as much back end profit out of the buyer as possible. Every product sold in the F&I office is mostly useless and always grossly overpriced. Smart buyers simply say NO to every product offered. Everything sold can be purchased elsewhere for a much, much lower price.
My last two purchases from Criswell Honda, in Germantown, had addendums attached for about $80 for wheel locks. I ignored the addendums and negotiated a price. Criswell did not attempt to enhance the price for the wheel locks as a separate pricing element.
The doc fee is simply one more profit grab by the dealer. Simply put, all dealer costs should be covered by the price, which for the dealer is cost plus profit. The reality is most dealers employ the doc fee game. Legally if they show a doc fee on one contract they are best served to show it on all contracts. If they do not, they are subjecting themselves to a discrimination charge. In Maryland, the doc fee is capped at $200, I think. In Virginia the doc fee is much higher. My last purchase, for my daughter, in Virginia included a doc fee of $600, which I did not pay.
However, because they must show it does not mean the buyer must pay it. When you settle on a price just tell the dealer that is the total price you will pay, not a dime more for any addendums or doc fees. I have yet to encounter a dealer in Maryland who would not adjust the deal to compensate for the doc fee inclusion on the contract, they either reduce the price or increase the trade value or provide a few extras.
Personally, I have doubts about College Park and Ourisman, I think it highly likely those two dealerships would push hard for the additional doc fee profit.
When purchasing a vehicle, the most important thing to recognize is the buyer is in control. The one exception to this is possibly if the buyer has very poor credit. For most buyers, their feet are their best negotiating tool. The last thing a sales person wants to see is a solid buyer heading for the door without purchasing. Often, it is at that time when the buyer will hear the dealer's better and maybe best offer.
#30700 of 32216 Re: 2013 Accord EX-L [jamesgatz]
Aug 29, 2013 (3:08 am)
I had to jump in here - whenever I hear someone mention "TRUECAR". In my opinion they are a pathetic joke and are not customer friendly. They receive $300 for every lead they turn into a buyer - which means the fake false prices they show (the ceo told the car industry approximately 2 years ago he would no longer include discounted prices in their fake calculations) so they would make even more profit. So as the scum of the earth they are and profiting off the backs of very hard working people who somehow can trust this slimy outfit, be forwarned! Edmunds does just as nice a job with price discovery and they even provide this forum so we can share our experiences and point out opportunity to fellow car shoppers. When I bought my last Honda Accord in 2011, I beat the TRUECAR price by $1500 by using this forum here, and the CEO from TRUECAR received NOTHING! And knowing that - it is a beautiful thing.
#30701 of 32216 Re: 2013 EX CVT buying [karhill1]
Aug 29, 2013 (3:23 am)
It is correct, allowing the sales person to think you are leaving without buying will often result in a better deal.
Recently bought an Acura. Basically settled on my price. Salesman spoke with the tower. He came back and said the price was good bit the tower required an additional $350 for registration. I said I would wait a bit, thanked him for his time and started to leave. I barely got out of the chair when he said OK no additional $350.
I took the $350 and bought an IPad.
#30702 of 32216 Re: 2013 Accord EX-L [1sebringnow]
Aug 29, 2013 (3:30 am)
You are exactly correct about Truecar. TC is only good for people who do not negotiate. This is no different then any car buying service.
The prices listed as target by TC are essentially set by the dealer. As such those prices are far above what is possible.
As you mention, at a minimum the TC price is overstated by $300.
Truth is, anyone buying at the TC price has left money on the table and made a dealer very happy.
#30703 of 32216 Re: 2013 Honda Accord Sedan EXL [cars12345]
Aug 29, 2013 (5:48 am)
Could you please share what was the last quote you got from Bernardi?
#30704 of 32216 Re: 2013 EX CVT buying [karhill1]
Aug 29, 2013 (7:58 am)
Thanks karhill for the very very good post. All you folks on here to learn the ins and outs of car shopping and how to achieve good deals should read karhill's post several times. You HAVE to be in control of the entire process. You do this by being armed with knowledge and information gained from these forums and other good sources. You should never pay for items the dealer has added that you don't want - its their problem they put them on. They can either throw the added stuff in the deal no charge or come up with another car that doesn't have unwanted stuff on it. Or you can leave and buy from a dealer that doesn't do this.
Ok - off the soapbox - gotta go top off my new tires that have this newly formulated H2O filling in them - no need for air. Problem is they're real heavy and a chore to rotate. That's ok - got em for 985 - regular price is 995.
#30705 of 32216 Re: 2013 EX CVT buying [gmanusmc]
Aug 29, 2013 (9:38 am)
The reason you got it for $985 is because that's yesterday's technology. Today it's H2O2. Hydogen peroxide filled tires deliver one extra mpg or so I'm told