Last post on Dec 09, 2013 at 6:49 PM
You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
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Honda Accord, Coupe, Sedan
#21486 of 32213 Re: Sedan EX-L V6 Offer [kingpcgeek]
Jul 30, 2008 (7:04 pm)
Some things about this deal:
1) The real selling price appears to be kind of high. The selling price of my 2008 Accord EX two weeks ago was $2945 less than MSRP and that included the dreaded 'doc fee'. This deal is $2105 less than MSRP plus the doc fee. That puts the selling price at $1756 less than MSRP. There may not be an additional $1200 worth of water left in this deal but I have to believe that if I could negotiate that much more off of MSRP, then you should be able to also. Realize as well that the doc fee is pure adp or 'additional dealer profit' and nothing more. These nice people at the dealership are trained professionals in the art of negotiation and practice a lot at not giving up things like 'doc fees' readily. They say things like: 'Even I have to pay it when I buy a car.' or 'My mother had to pay it.' Just tell them that it is ok-no problem-that you just want it included in the negotiated price as opposed to added on as a surprise. They might not want to do it but if you look a little harder, then you will find some more nice people at another Honda dealership who will. It took me eight e-mails and three dealers before I found one. I really do think that you can do better. Remember also that when you are leasing short term (36 months or less) the effect of any reduction in cap cost is magnified in the payment. For example, for every $1000 you are able to negotiate off of the selling price your payment is reduced by almost $30 per month in depreciation ($27.77 to be exact). That is 7% of the payment that they quoted to you. Is that worth it? To save 7%?
2) It is in your best interest to negotiate a selling price or 'capitalized cost' from the invoice and not from MSRP. 3) Do you really want the accessories? Do you think that the price of the accessories is reasonable? I think wheel locks are about $40 and the molded mudflaps less than $100. I don't know about the other stuff but even $695 seems a little high. Maybe you should think about adding them later if they are stuck on that stuff as a negotiating point. I added molded mudflaps to my Accord myself. They took about 20 minutes to put on and I bought them at the local Honda garage for $64+tax. The Honda dealer from whom I bought my car threw in the wheel locks, btw, at the aforementioned $21550.
4) Selling price (cap cost) - Residual value = Total Lease Depreciation. To figure out the monthly depreciation, simply divide by the term; in your case 36 months. Sometimes the acquisition fee is added to the selling price, though, and it appears to be the case in this deal. Even still, you are depreciating nearly $14000 over the 36 month term. That sounds like a lot to me. Is the residual percentage really 58? Is this a high mileage lease? Is it normal for an Accord to depreciate almost in half in 36 months (42%)? I would ask them to check the residual percent again to make sure that it wasn't for 42 months or something.
5) Notice that your sales tax amount that is added to the payment is exactly 8.05% times the payment. Your sales tax is calculated on the payment just like a short term rental car contract. Does your state have excise tax also and how does that get paid if it exists?
#21487 of 32213 1st time car buyer
Jul 30, 2008 (7:19 pm)
This is my first time buying a new car and I just want to make sure I'm getting a good deal. The best price quote I got for the 08 accord coupe V6 was $26,001 which includes the destination fee. With taxes and fees added the out the door price is $27,253.
#21488 of 32213 Re: 1st time car buyer [erronto]
Jul 30, 2008 (8:29 pm)
it has navi yet...
exl v6 ?
#21489 of 32213 Re: Sedan EX-L V6 Offer [gmanandge]
Jul 30, 2008 (8:35 pm)
1. I am very well versed in the ins and the outs of car buying and leasing. I think this dealer has given up and is getting angry the I am pushing for a better deal. I was hoping to buy from them since they are between home and work, but it looks like I'll probably go to the Tempe dealer which is being a lot better about dealer add-ons but is a little higher over invoice.
2. I am negotiating the selling price of the car. He has offered to sell it to me at $250 over invoice, but and I mean a big BUT: Straight from his latest email: I pulled an invoice on a v6 exl accord for you. I would be happy to share the invoice on the car you actually buy. Invoice is what the dealer pays for the car. Invoice includes Destination and handling charges totaling $635(this fee has been recently increased $35). Invoice also includes Honda dealer advertising group fee of $254.16. These fees are fees that every Honda dealer pays when they receive a car! If you buy a car that's been deliver in the last month or so the invoice will reflect the $35 increase. If its before that I will gladly reduce the price of the car by $35. What ever the invoice reads it will be that plus $250. This invoice reads $26305.13...that includes the before mentioned fees, but not the $35 adjustment. So the price I quoted you was $26305+35+250=26590. That is the number I will continue to use.
#3. I did not ask for the add-ons. It is what they add to every car and he will not negotiate them lower then $595. From the dealer: For $595 you get Premium Window tint with lifetime guarantee, Wheel Locks, Splash Guards, and a Fantastic Trunk Tray($125)! All of them protect your purchase! We can take out the trunk tray if you want, but the other three are bolted or glued onto the car!
#4 I can figure out a lease in my sleep now I've been doing it so much. Yes the residual is 58% for a sedan at this time, and that is for 12,000 a year. I have confirmed this number through many sources. Luckily the MF dropped from .0186 to .00129 yesterday.
#5 the tax calculation is correct. we don't have an excise tax, but we do have yearly vehicle license tax that is around $450 the first year.
#21490 of 32213 Re: need help!!! buy sooner [thegraduate]
Jul 30, 2008 (8:45 pm)
i am thinking to buy civic si with nav
i got a quote 22000 before tax and dmv . the otd will be 26000
but the rate is very high for me. it is 7.9%
the accord i have 3.9% for exl or exl v6 both with navi
i really dont know how to pick now...
and comparing si with accord exl coup . which one will be better.
#21491 of 32213 Re: Sedan EX-L V6 Offer [kingpcgeek]
Jul 31, 2008 (3:30 am)
Invoice is a relative term. Sometimes it has very little to do with the actual amount that a car dealer pays for the car. This is precisely the reason that you have probably seen and heard of customers paying far less than the actual invoice and translates into you having the opportunity to negotiate a selling price that is less than invoice (in some cases, a lot less). Call them 'step-stair' or 'volume objectives' or 'dealer cash' programs they all have the same effect: they change the price that the dealer has paid for their inventory and, as a consequence (effectively) they change the invoice (Also: holdback, floor plan assistance, and marketing incentives, etc. also contribute to the changing of the price that the dealer paid). All of that stuff, though, is triggered by sales. They have to actually sell a car (or lease) to someone in order earn the dealer cash, the holdback, etc.....Timing, however, is everything when it comes to these programs and perhaps the timing right this minute is not so great in your market area for you to negotiate a better price. In that case wait if you can until the terms favor you more. Or maybe your market is just a price firm market. Buy outside your market then. Establish the amount that it becomes reasonable for you to travel to another market. For me it was $300. I would drive or travel 100 miles for $300 but not less than that.
Also, this dealer sounds unreasonable. All of those accessories that you wrote about are added to the car by them. If they refuse to sell you a car without that stuff (which they can very easily) and you don't want it, then you might want to look elsewhere. If they are unreasonable now, at the absolute best time of the relationship between retailer and consumer, then chances are that they are going to be unreasonable at the 'less-than-best' times, when the product has failed or has created stress because you need repairs. Remember, in any negotiation, both buyer and seller must feel that the endgame benefits both parties (win/win) or they should stop negotiating.
BTW, there are all kinds of other reasons that dealers 'drop their pants' for a sale. Ego, dealer/sales manager trips to Africa or the super bowl, referral business, targeted sales to key consumers......the list is endless. Find a dealer who wants your business more than these folks and then use them to get what you want from this dealer if that's what you really want or find another dealer and lease from them for a lower selling price. Either way you come out ahead of where you are now.
#21492 of 32213 Re: 2008 Accord LX-P automatic [carlosmeade]
Jul 31, 2008 (5:02 am)
carlosmeade, at 750 under invoice the dealer is still making money. First there are rebates from Honda, 2nd are incentives, 3rd there is something called dealer hold back on every car. Don't you do your homework?
#21493 of 32213 Re: Sedan EX-L V6 Offer [kingpcgeek]
Jul 31, 2008 (5:59 am)
kinpcgeek - your insights are very helpful, thank you.
Re: current offers lease money factors.
Can you or anyone confirm the money factor being used in this current Honda nationwide web site offer?
[2008 Accord Sedan LX 4-Cyl Featured Special Lease. $219.00 per month for 36 months. $2,599.00 total due at signing.] Of course, more details are on the Honda web site.
Yesterday I was quoted 0.00186 MF for an LX-P, and I see your note that the MF is 0.00129 now for the EX-L offer.
I really want an LX-P - but there is no specific offer for that trim. The question I will face to negotiate: should I expect the dealer (Phila area) to offer the same MF of 0.00129 for the LX-P?
#21494 of 32213 Re: Sedan EX-L V6 Offer [mdominik]
Jul 31, 2008 (6:28 am)
.00129 is only on V6 Sedans. I'm still trying to confirm if the V6 Coupe went down to .00129 as well.
Sales must have really dropped for the V6's for Honda to drop the rate like they did on the 29th of the month.
#21495 of 32213 Re: Sedan EX-L V6 Offer [kingpcgeek]
Jul 31, 2008 (7:25 am)
Regarding the LX offer 219, I did a calculation and figure the MF to be .00129 there too (using the Edmunds lease calculator and playing with the MF until the payment matched).
So for me, the question is, will a dealer use that MF for an LX-P?