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You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
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Honda Accord, Coupe, Sedan
#20443 of 32204 ITS A GAME
May 21, 2008 (7:22 pm)
Buying a car at a great price is a game. The dealer will win all the time since he knows how much profit there is in the sale. It is only a matter of how little profit the dealer is willing to take. The dealer will not sell a car at a loss.
Check if it is possible to get the car you want at the so called DEALER INVOICE. For the most part a dealer can sell at that price and still make a significant profit in the monthly kick back from the factory.
I never jump at a dealer off which has to be done on the spot unless that offer is at or below my price and I have already shopped other dealers. If the price is good for that day it will be good some place tomorrow. And if it isn't then I'll wait until it is. I never shop for a car when I need one right away.
Also dealers are usually willing to give a better price on a car in stock then on one ordered from the factory.
I actually had one dealer tell me (Dealer in Bel Air, MD) I could not order a car from the factory. I guess I had my stupid face on that day. The dealer used this as en excuse for charging me an extra $100 finder fee for locating the car I wanted and then sending a driver there to get it. Then the dealer told me that the car would have several dealer added options on it such as mud flaps, wheel locks, and door edge guards which would cost about $400 more. When I asked if I could order the car from the factory and get it without dealer options, that is when he said no that the whole dealer - factory relationship had changed and that the dealer did not know exactly what cars, color and equipment the factory would be sending. That is why according to the dealer the best way to get my car in the color and equipped the way I wanted was to have the dealer locate the car at another dealer. Needless to say I discovered from another, more honest dealer (In Baltimore), that dealers knew several weeks to a month in advance exactly what cars they were going to receive from the factory and that dealer was able to place my name on exactly the car I wanted. And I did not have to get any dealer add on extras.
The Honda dealer near Bel Air, Maryland is about a two miles from my house. So I drove to the Baltimore Honda dealer and got the car I wanted without any dealer add ons.
I took delivery on a 2008 Accord EX-L V6 on 27 Dec07 at dealer invoice.
I had done all this over the INTERNET through a car buying service. Each dealer had an INTERNET salesperson who had special prices which the other sales people could not offer. Don't know how correct this is but that is what I was told. The dealer apparently kept all INTERNET inquiries so that about two months after my purchase the dealer send out an E-Mail indicating that the prices previously given over the INTERNET were now $500 less for any in stock car bought. So there must be something to the idea that a car in stock can be bought of a better price then one ordered. After all each dealer has what is called a FLOOR PLAN which is the cost of the loan the dealer is paying for on each car in stock. It usually amounts to about .75% per month. So moving cars in stock is most important.
Also the purchase of an extended warranty was another game. Since I keep a car well over 100K miles I wanted an extended warranty. Honda offers extended warranty called HONDA CARE in various lengths of time and miles. The max is ZERO DEDUCTIBLE 8 years - 120,000 miles which is the one I got. Before I closed the deal I did a search on the INTERNET for extended warranties. I discovered a Honda dealer in RI who was selling this warranty for $1095. When I asked my local dealer in Baltimore about this I was told the price was $1999,95. When I showed him the printout of the $1095 price he immediately lower the price to $1095.
The dealer in RI web site is www.jayhondacare.com
This all happened in Dec 07 so things might have changed since then. Also there is a $100 deductible plan which was $100 less The plans offered were for 5, 6, 7, and 8 years with various mileage lengths.
The dealer also had a warranty plan which would refund a significant portion of its cost if the warranty was not used. I believe the price was about $1500 and $1000 would be refunded when the warranty expired without ever have a claim filed against it.
About 2 months after I purchased my new 08 Honda
#20444 of 32204 Re: 08 Accord EX-L V6 w/o Navi [jwsmo]
May 21, 2008 (9:12 pm)
Were you satisfied with the prices? Were they near the invoice price. Since I am looking for the I4 without leather, it may not be as popular as the one you are purchasing. The Odessey was purchased using the internet and Sam's club from Vincel in 2004. They had the best deal at that time. I will submit a request for quotes using the internet. Thanks for your input.
#20445 of 32204 Re: ITS A GAME [holew]
May 22, 2008 (5:26 am)
Please explain what you mean by "monthly kickbacks".
No such thing...sorry.
#20446 of 32204 Re: ITS A GAME [holew]
May 22, 2008 (7:43 am)
Good job, holew. This is the kind of post that benefits all. Thanks for your time.
#20447 of 32204 Re: ITS A GAME [holew]
May 22, 2008 (9:11 am)
Thanks for the contribution to the post. As far as the warranty plan with the "refund clause" goes, are you talking about the RI dealer offering a different plan than the standard warranty? If so, could you provide more details and/or a link to find it?
Btw, the Sacucci Honda dealer (also in RI) offers $995 for the non-deductible 8yr/120k plan (www.myhondawarranty.com).
Also, I hate to make things more painful for "isellhondas", but if you think a ruined market means selling at invoice, I guess the MD/VA/DC area must be way beyond ruined. As laid out in a previous post, I paid about $750 below invoice for my Accord EX-L V6 with Navi (supposedly a rare car), and it wasn't even the best offer that I had (albeit for a different color in stock) by about $200.
#20448 of 32204 Re: ITS A GAME [iwanthonda]
May 22, 2008 (10:28 am)
At the risk of incuring the wrath of our HOST, I just have to wonder exactly WHY a dealer would lose money on that car.
Makes no sense for a merchant, any merchant to buy a product, pay the overhead associated with selling it and then selling it for less than they paid for it.
Yes, it is a rare car.
Was there a trade involved?
#20449 of 32204 Re: ITS A GAME [isellhondas]
May 22, 2008 (10:58 am)
MSRP is $30,895 so 100% of hold back would be $617.90 . So they are saying they got the car for invoice AND 100% of hold back and the dealer lost a further $132.10 on the deal. As Al "flannel power" Borland used to say: I don't think so, Tim. To lose so much on one car there has to either be a trade or a large deal doc or prep fee or perhaps some side sticker "mop and glow" or $700 wheel locks and moonroof wind deflector on it.
Maybe they are confusing invoice and MSRP ? I have seen folks do that before and it is pretty easy to get $750 under MSRP.....
#20450 of 32204 Re: ITS A GAME [dwynne]
May 22, 2008 (11:24 am)
Yeah, sorry but it makes no sense, especially on a very hard to find car.
In addition, there is the overhead involved with every car sale, a commission to the salesperson etc.
#20451 of 32204 Re: ITS A GAME [isellhondas]
May 22, 2008 (11:54 am)
If you take a look at the layout of my deal as posted, I suppose you could figure out exactly how much of a markdown I've been talking about:
My purchase post
By the way, there was no trade involved, since I sold my previous car through craigslist. And I paid for the car in full, so no financing was involved either.
According to my calculations, I received about $750 below invoice or $3650 below MSRP, depending on what you want to compare against. Even if I compensate and say that the wheel locks, splash guards, and pinstripe cost nothing, we're talking about $639 under invoice. Here's my calculation for that scenario:
$27,404 invoice + $635 destination fee + $99 processing fee = $28,138 +TTL
$27,499 (car + destination fee + processing fee) +TTL
The difference between these two figures is $639 dollars, not even accounting for the wheel locks, splash guards, and pinstripe that were "thrown in". If you want to make sure that I didn't get stuck with a large hidden cost, my additional costs were $1,649.94 (6% MD state tax) and $104 (cost of transferring tags), resulting in a $29,252.94 OTD price.
The only point of contention is the fact that I got two accessories installed in the car, but as I also laid out in my purchase post, I got them for the employee discount price. The only area in which I might have gotten hosed is where I had to pay for 4 hours labor on the rear-view camera kit instead of the official Honda-stated 3 hours. Even so, that was $69 dollars, which according to the statements of "dwynne" and "isellhondas" is still losing the dealership money.
#20452 of 32204 Re: ITS A GAME [dwynne]
May 22, 2008 (12:14 pm)
Speaking of holdback, I certainly will not attest to the validity of whatever numbers are thrown about... But one sales guy I spoke to calculated holdback as 3% of the $30,895 MSRP, which was $926.85. Based on that number, he said that my lowest quote of $27,300 (including dest+proc fees) would result in a profit of about $300, and STILL didn't want to sell me the car based on that! He wanted to charge me dealer invoice, which according to him would give the dealership a profit of closer to $1000.
In other related matters, he also said he wouldn't budge from this number because he knew he was the only dealership in the state that had the color I wanted, so needless to say I did not go with him. On top of that, he refused to give me the VIN and mileage on the car when requested, and I found out later from another dealer that the specific car had a damage disclosure on it. So with that said, I would also recommend not dealing with anyone at Heritage Honda in Parkville, MD with the initials GH.