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Toyota Highlander Maintenance and Repair

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#2252 of 4696 Pilot...... by wwest Jan 05, 2005 (9:23 am)
I'm going to come down on the other side of the fence also....   Basically you seem to be saying that since there are not enough owners REPORTING (we have not idea how many maybe experiencing the problem and not reporting) the problem then it likely doesn't exist, and/or you're drawing conclusions about it not being a design flaw based on too little information.   I am definitely on the other side of the fence but then again I have posited my ideas as theory only. But admittedly as I see more and more information I am coming very close to making a conclusive statement that this mod is to prevent instances of loss of control of FWD vehicles due to engine compression braking on slippery surfaces.   And again, over the years I have become so used to the "upshifting" symptom my 01 exhibits that I really do have to remember to pay special attention in order to really noptice it's slingshot effect during coastdown and/or the feel of being bumped from behind just before coming (slowly)to a full stop.
#2253 of 4696 Slip Indicator light and beeper getting one by probir Jan 05, 2005 (9:53 am)
From last 2 weeks I am facing this problem, the traction control get active randomly (one smooth dry roads), most of the time on curves (even while changing lanes). Went to dealer, but could not reproduce the problem there, they are saying they cannot do any thing unless they see it. One more thing I noticed it happens only when it very cold, on a hot days its fine. Any one here faced this problem, or has any suggestions: Its 2004 V6 Replies to this message: bloc11 (Dec 12, 2005 5:34 pm) bjduncan14 (Jan 12, 2006 4:54 pm)
#2254 of 4696 Re: Scoti, I Respect Your Opinion [pilot130] by wbay Jan 05, 2005 (10:43 am)
Replying to: pilot130 (Jan 05, 2005 7:43 am) I am perplexed. Is this not a problems and solutions board? pilot130 does not seem to have any problems with his ? (what do you drive, by the way? Probably not an HL). And yet, pilot130 is here on this board to persuade me that the hesitation problem is in my mind. I suspect pilot130 is an industry apologist. A polite industry apologist, but clearly someone with an agenda including something other than an actual solution to the hesitation problem.   As for your suggestion that I simply run out and buy a new car, well, the 32K that I spent on my HL is now worth 28K or less. It's a huge hit to just run out and buy a new car when I've only just done precisely that six months ago. There is your solution, and there is economic reality. Wwest has useful suggestions, pilot130 thinks psychotherapy is the way to go. Not very useful as far as solutions go.
#2255 of 4696 Wwest, Scoti1, Wbay--What's The Evidence So Far? by pilot130 Jan 05, 2005 (10:49 am)
Is it a prevailent problem--being widely reported in many cartalk sites or consumer polls? I don't think so. Have there been any accident reports attributed to the issue? None that I know of. Has there been any consistent data regarding how long the hestitation occurs? Estimates range from 'momentary to two seconds'-- even in the few instances where intervals are mentioned, there's no consistency. Is it a characteristic free wheeling situation inherent is most similar 4WD systems, to maintain control in decelleration mode when there are slippery conditions? Perhaps, but that's just a theory at this juncture. Are first time 4WD drivers being fooled by the differences in operating characteristics of those vehicles? Perhaps. Another theory? Saying that "not many people read Edmunds may explain why there are only a few hesitation reports" isn't a valid explanation IMO, because Edmunds is one of the most widely reviewed and highly respected cartalk sites in North America. If the issue was more prevailent,we would undoubtedly hear much more about it in this site. Again, I'm speaking from what I've seen and learned here; Experienced first hand with my own HL; Learned from speaking with service personnel at several dealerships (not all Toyota BTW). This issue was first raised a while back--about page 80 of 113 so far in this forum, so it's a relatively recent development. The first 2/3 of this forum didn't mention it. Wwest, you were one of the first to comment on an early report, where you stated your SUV had a minor "lurch" on WOT from very low speed, but you also advised that it wasn't an unusual problem, nor did it cause you any grief. Following those first reports, others came forth with observations like "Mine does the same--or acts similarly"--about 25 to 30 to date. Several of these stated it wasn't noticeable until the issue was raised--several others claimed their Toyota vehicles weren't HLs, but acted the same way---power of suggestion at work perhaps? Still others have stated they don't have the problem, and can't seem to induce it no matter what they try, in fact, you will find that the number who report they don't have the problem exceeds those who report otherwise. Others have said "I had the problem but it disappears when I select 'Snow' mode." I know of no reports of hesitation in major Consumer Polls, no one in the service business who I've talked with acknowledge it, and even Toyota has said they know of the reports, are looking into it, think it may have to do with driver habits, but are looking into some kind of preventive fix which will eliminate any possibility of its occurrence. (This at least shows they are approaching the issue in a responsible manner, does it not?) There are some very good insights into Toyota 4WD systems in opening posts by Cliffy, placed there when the forum entitled "Toyota 4WD Systems Explained". These are worth reviewing if there are any who missed them. You might find them enlightening. At this point, I don't think there's enough info or data to categorize the issue as a design problem, or suggest that it isn't anything other than a 4WD characteristic that happens to occur under certain operating circumstances. I'm still of the opinion it may be overblown, but I am open to any solid and factual evidence to the contrary.   And yes WBAY, I'm trying very hard to be polite; I am not by any means an apologist; I have no agenda other than to seek facts and learn something; I'm not suggesting nor do I think anyone is 'imagining' their problem; I'm definitely not advocating psychotherapy as a solution; And finally, submitting an objective opinion on this issue isn't a criminal offense that I know of......! Just because someone doesn't agree is no reason to resort to intentional taunts.
#2256 of 4696 The Hesitation "Problem" by scoti1 Jan 05, 2005 (12:17 pm)
Sounds like there are three issues:   1. Is the hesitation problem prevalent? 2. Is it a design problem? 3. Is it a safety concern?   I think the answer to #3 is a resounding yes! Read the reports of hesitation here and it will be apparent to you that these people were placed in positions of peril due to the hesitation. Don’t limit yourself to Edmunds, though, try an internet search. The problem is not limited to reports here on Edmunds as earlier implied. Reports of the problem can be found at various car talk sites, consumer complaint sites, and newspaper articles.   With the answer to #3 being yes, the answers to #1. and #2. really don’t matter to the person experiencing the problem, do they? If consumer safety is at stake it means something needs to be done to fix it, no matter how prevalent and no matter what the cause of the hesitation (be it due to design or manufacturing or be it categorized as a problem or quirk).
#2258 of 4696 Pilot.... by wwest Jan 05, 2005 (1:11 pm)
Think about this...   How many times have we seen someone join in on these posts and begin by saying they only went looking for a "forum" because they had a problem they wanted to discuss with a larger group?   Is there really very many that first came here absent looking for a solution to a problem?   So, for most, no problems, no forum participation.   And, by the by, Almost very forum I participate in, at least those open to Toyota and/or Lexus discussions, has someone asking questions about this hesitation issue. Just have a look through all the FWD Toyota and Lexus forums here at Edmunds for 04 and later FWD hesitation complaints/posts.   And please, please, do not continue to mischaractorize my own statements nor my position on this. My vehicle is a 2001 AWD RX300 and IS NOT subject to the hesitation problem insofar an I know.   My vehicle does exhibit something I deem as a "precursor" to the hesitation effects, it shifts into neutral, or upshifts, during coastdown or just before coming to a full stop. Regardless, when I aggressively feed it gas it does not hesitate, at least not to any extend that I notice.   But, if you take the symptoms, effects, of the transmission "feel" in my 01, and assume that my theory of the probable case is correct, and now extrapolate that into an 04 with an e-throttle, it becomes very easy to understand why the 04 and later might have hesitation problems. Hesitation problems that many owners might never encounter, or encounter so rarely as to write them off as simple happenstance.
#2259 of 4696 Pilot.... by wwest Jan 05, 2005 (1:20 pm)
Since you actually own an 04 or later HL, why don't you be the one to prove us wrong? All you have to do is purchase the shop manuals, wire an LED/resistor across each of ECU outputs to the transmission control solenoids, and then monitor the LED indicators to see which and/or what gears the ECU selects for the transmission in the selected circumstances.   During throttle valve closed coastdown from 70MPH and each 10MPH increment below. Accelerate up to the selected speed and then simply take your foot away from the gas pedal.   Below 10MPH with the throttle valve closed and no brakes applied what gear is the transmission in the instant, just before coming to a full stop, and you move the gas pedal quickly to about half-throttle?
#2260 of 4696 Re: Chicago Tribune Article-- December 12, 2004 [pilot130] by scoti1 Jan 05, 2005 (1:42 pm)
The left-foot braking theory has been debunked by the right-footed brakers who reported here with hesitation problems. Maybe left-foot brakers exacerbate the problem, but it does not appear to be the cause.
#2261 of 4696 Scoti and Wwest by pilot130 Jan 05, 2005 (2:04 pm)
Wwest, my intentions aren't to prove anyone wrong. On the contrary, I'd like to see someone--anyone--show conclusive evidence that conclusions and condemnations being alluded to here are right. I'm of the opinion that hasn't happened yet. I'm simply not sufficiently convinced there's (a)an inherent/across the board design flaw that's been suggested; (b) The problem isn't somehow related to driving techniques; (c) The problem is as prevailent as being suggested; (d) The problem represents a serious safety hazard as has been suggested. I haven't seen enough conclusive evidence for anyone to make a decisive statement on any of this. I gave my opinions, and simply qualified them as such.   Scoti, I don't place much faith in the integrity of anything in the media these days. That article in the Chicago Trib is no exception. My point is simply this: the article totally contradicts the earlier Pittsburg Chronicle article, and validates the "left foot" theory because it is supposedly written by a professional auto authority. I don't think either one validates any theory, except that it does illustrate the principle that one can believe/quote anything one wants, but that doesn't always mean it's right, or accurate. It follows that principle could also apply to anecdotal reports in cartalk sites, agreed?

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