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Sedans Low End Sedans (under $16k)
3820 messages, Last post on Nov 24, 2008 at 9:45 AM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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For lack of something cheaper to do (driving my Echo would be better, but not cheaper since gas still costs money no matter how little I use), I have been doing a lot of reading. It seems like you owned a lot of older Toyotas and it seems like it has been some time ago. I was just wondering what the model year of newest Toyota you owned was. Also, did you buy any of these Toyotas new or were they all used? If used, that might be your problem right there. No matter how good a car starts out if it is abused, it is bound to have problems later on. Also, when was the last time you took a look at a Toyota and examined things like fit and finish? In case you are wondering, I examined Daewoo, Hyundai, and Kia (among others) for fit and finish back in March of this year so it is not like my personal information is that old. Can you say the same? |
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We do not yet own a Toyota and never have. However, of all vehicles owned by all the people I know, the Toyota has the fewest problems...all types of Toyota. We were VERY impressed with the ECHO when we test drove one almost 2 years ago. It had good seating position, outstanding fuel economy, good performance, great ride and very roomy for a small car. It is far superior to the many small cars we have owned and purchased NEW: 1971 Chevy Vega, 1971 VW Super Beetle, 1972 Volvo 145S, 1975 VW Rabbit, and 1980 Chevy Citation. However, now that we are 63 years old, we like a nicer quality seat covering, padded armrests on doors, fold down armrests for front seats, Cruise Control, padded and carpeted door panels and other niceties found on all Siennas. The Odyssey is nice but lacks padded arm rests on doors, Dual Zone Temp, Overhead console of our Grand Caravan. MPV is underpowered and felt much smaller than the Sienna. The Sienna is THE MOST comfortable vehicle for us and we would have purchased one in 1999 if we had looked more closely. I believed the drivel in car magazines that Sienna was nice but too small and too expensive. We did NOT even look at Sienna for that reason. Friends have had major problems with Hondas, Nissans, Mazdas, Hyundais, all European brands,all American brands,etc...BUT not one has had any problems with a Toyota. Truly remarkable...and that is why I feel Toyota is THE most reliable brand. |
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| Mr. major, you can rant on and on and on and on and on and on and on about your love for Toyota's and you know what it teaches me? You're either unemployed or underemployed or for some reason you've got a lot of free time. I don't hate Honda or Nissan or Toyota I just feel that they're overpriced, boring automobiles. Kia's and Hyundai's are good looking, well-designed cars with great warranty's and low prices. Again, I drive one and it's a very painless experience. No need to try a Japanese car. I'm constantly having to see them on the clogged up roads. Honda Sticker boys with whiny-butted annoying sounding engines that really don't inspire confidence by their sound. Sound like angry hornets. Boring looks. New Civic is looking worse than old. The only Toyota worth looking at is the new Celica. It's overpriced and, yes, it's stuck with the Toyota label. High prices, bland looks=winning formula for Americans lacking in luster. Good for profit margin though. Keep throwing the mindless information from American car magazines who've made their minds up BEFORE driving a Hyundai or Kia. You're entertaining, Mr.major. | |
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I recall an extremely recent "American car magazine" that just rated the Hyundai XG300 over the Honda Accord and Dodge Stratus. It was a value comparison, with most editors picking the Accord as the car they would actually own, but the Hyundai gave the most bang-for-the-buck in creature comforts, but placed dead last in acceleration, handling, and braking. And it's funny how I've read some very good reviews of the Hyundai Tiburon, with the editors calling it entertaining and a good value. But, since this is all "mindless information", I guess we should just discard all of this praise for Hyundai. But, once compared to other vehicles in it's class, the Koreans have their work cut out for them. Car and Driver did an excellent comparison of 13 small sedans. These "American car magazines" have a distinct habit of hating "American" cars, but they still scored higher than the Koreans... Here's sections of the article: "Thirteenth Place: Kia Sephia LS" "Kia is a relatively new player in the U.S. market, although not quite the tenderfoot it might seem; Ford Festivas and Aspires of the '80s and '90s came from Korea's Kia. But the Ford deal has ended, and now Kia is following the path of so many hopeful importers who came to this country with no reputation and little experience, intent on grabbing a piece of our 17-million annual car market." "The Sephia's last-place rating in this test, by a clear margin, suggests that Kia still has plenty of upgrading to do. That's if you're gauging this car as we do, holding it up to the levels of sophistication achieved by Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and Mazda. The Sephia makes enough thrumming noises and quivering branggs as it shuttles down the highway, makes enough big deals out of small bumps, and loses enough parts as it passes (the rubber windshield molding blew off in the top-speed test) to constantly remind us that it's still a work in progress." "On the other hand, for the rock-bottom price of $13,324 as tested, lowest of the group, you get a brand-new car with a list of features that's about average for this group, including power locks, windows, and mirrors; cruise control; a CD player; and more. On the inside, Kia has made more effort toward color coordination and pleasing materials than many of the others here, including Saturn, the spendiest car of the bunch. The Sephia's performance is mostly on the low side of average, although top-gear acceleration is midpack. Top speed, at 119 mph, tied the gutsy Hyundai while outrunning all the others." "In the rear, footroom is generous under the front buckets, but the seat itself leans back like a La-Z-Boy, drawing complaints from all. Space back there is about average for the group, comfort is below average." "Value shoppers will be reassured by the three-year/36,000-mile vehicle warranty and five-year/60,000-mile powertrain warranty." "Highs: Best price in town, smart color coordination inside, did we mention "low price"? Lows: Enough vibrations to start your own garage band, weak braking, yesterday's styling. The Verdict: In price and behavior, sorta like a brand-new used car." First place went to (surprise!) a Japanese car. "First Place: Mazda Protege ES" "This Mazda tops the charts for driving fun. Its chassis muscles are athletic, its engine is sweet and strong, its controls are precise and direct, and the look is classy inside and out. This is a car that does everything well. And it has spirit. BMW verve for less than half the price. What's not to like?" "The quality of this car starts with body structure, as solid as the vault at Wells Fargo. No rattles and buzzes. No quivers and thrums. And there's room for very tall drivers. The seat knows exactly how the orthopedist told you to sit. It's easy to find a good driving position in this car. There's a wonderful leanness all about you, with imaginative shapes to please the eye, but no fat, no froufrou. Just pure car flavor delivered without distraction." "This is a disciplined machine with quick, sure suspension responses starting right down where the low-profile 195/55VR-15 Bridgestones meet the pavement. So you can hurry without worry. Path control is excellent, whether you're bending through the twisties or cruising the interstate. Acceleration numbers trail the Dodge Neon's by a nose, until the Protege, with its songful 1840cc, pulls ahead to finish the quarter in 16.8 seconds at 82 mph. A glimpse of the handling prowess appears in the results of the emergency-lane-change test, where the Mazda outruns all but the big-tired Hyundai, which squeaks through 0.1 mph faster." "Although most of the fun happens in the driver's seat, this four-door also takes exceptionally good care of its passengers. For both two and three occupants in the rear seat, the Mazda ranked just behind the Focus. Both of these sedans have high, firm rear benches with good thigh support and excellent footroom under the front buckets." "There aren't many sedans at any price that can match the dynamic balance of this Mazda, that possess the quick, confident moves and the carved-from-billet integrity of structure. At a sticker of $15,570, this Protege ES seems an easy choice." "Highs: Classy looks inside and out, quality feel, sports-sedan power and handling. Lows: Compared with the others, no complaints. The Verdict: A small car that makes us feel rich." You can read the full article at http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/comparisontests/2000/Jun/200006_comparisontest_littl.xml?&page=1 |
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| Owns a '96 Camry 4. Better read up on the bad seals. They smoke like old faithful when they start. Not good for a company of such great praise. Even the late eighties Toyotas had some real problems. Many of which I laugh about because the same Toyota BS existed back then as now. I laugh everytime I see an old Toyota pass with one dim headlight, a problem I outgrew. | |
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but you guys said it all...."Wishful thinkin don't make it so." Amen. (Speakin of time....iluvmysephia seems to have a lot of time on his hands too. Maybe that's why he can only afford a -- what is it? -- oh yeah -- a Kia??) =O) |
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| If Toyota or even masterful Mazda are the benchmark car producers for the rest of the world to bow down to we're in real trouble. When is Mazda going to actually STYLE A SUBCOMPACT OR COMPACT CAR? They're very bland looking. And notice that price $15,000 and plenty of change. Oh, they deserve it right? They've been at this a long time and those chubby older guys in the offices are getting closer to retirement, so let's just jack it to those silly Americans! Well, I don't bite that easily. Boring, mundane looking Japanese vehicles. Toyota's Celica has promise, but, yes, they've overpriced it. It doesn't hold the same grace as Sephia anyway. Toyota's WiLL concept car looked kinda cool. Watch what happens now. If it goes to production they'll "have" to charge $21,000 before options "because it's a Thai-o-ta" and "we've been at this a long time!" We're getting chubby and complacent on you dumb Americans and you keep giving us your cash! We love you Americans! I'm not biting! It's Kia or Hyundai from here on out baby! | |
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i agree with sephia guy. celicas are WAY too overpriced. the gt gets outrunned by the tiburon and elantra (i've done it with ease) and costs less. so wat are you paying that extra money for in a "sports car"? hyundai and kia sell their cars not for poor people or people without lots of money, they sell it to smart people who know the value of a car and who wont spend an extra 5-10K on the badge of the car. my friend owns a civic ex, those things are pieces of crap and he admits it. slow and expensive. same with celica gt (i'm not talking about the celica gts because WOW) he says he paid too much for the gt. sephia is a great car right now and will be 10x better when the sehpia II comes out and that goes for all hyundais and kias they redesign like crazy and always improve on power and goodies. i'm not saying that the other cars like honda and toyotas are junk, i just think they aren't worth it since they cost too much for wat they give you. anybody who owns a hyundai/kia knows the secret the non-owners don't know. we get ALOT more than we pay for. with the other makers you get what you pay for sometimes. |
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| oh yea i don't care what people say about the echo, they aren't pretty but sure are quick for the hp/torque you got in that car. i'm gonna have to say VERY nicely done. | |
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Did the Celicas that you say you have outraced know you were racing them? That might be another explanation. Or it could be that the person driving the Celica did not know what they were doing. Not saying you have not outraced a Celica in an Elantra, but there may be another explanation besides the car. |
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