Last post on Dec 30, 2011 at 9:54 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Toyota ECHO, Chevrolet Aveo, Kia Rio, Nissan Sentra, Honda Fit, Hyundai Accent, Toyota Yaris, Kia Spectra, Suzuki Forenza, Sedan
Jul 30, 2001 (5:50 am)
I agree that the info from J.D. Powers is well hidden. They are supposed to have a consumer oriented site, but it was always down when I tried to access it and the link to it on the commercial site has been removed I noticed.
Fortunately, I have written down some company wide and individual results. This was from some time back so I am not sure where the posts are that had links to the information.
In 2000, the industry average was 154 problems per 100 vehicles; Hyundai averaged 203 problems per 100 vehicles putting it 4th from the bottom; Daewoo averaged 211 problems per 100 vehicles putting it 3rd from the bottom; and, Kia averaged 251 problems per 100 vehicles placing it last. By comparison, Toyota averaged 118 problems per 100 vehicles.
In 2001, the industry average slipped to 158 problems per 100 vehicles. Hyundai improved to 192 problems per 100 vehicles. Kia dropped to 267 problems per 100 vehicles. I did not make a note of what Daewoo's score was. For comparison, Toyota also slipped and averaged 121 problems per 100 vehicles.
I have some individual results, but I am unsure if it is from the year 2000 or 2001. Given the presence of the XG300, I believe it is for 2001. Remember this is the average score per 100 vehicles. To save space, I am not going to point that out every time.
Kia Sephia 250, Kia Rio 255, Kia Spectra 295, Kia Sportage 300, Hyundai XG300 172, Hyundai Sonata 180, Hyundai Accent 184, Hyundai Elantra 187, Hyundai Santa Fe 202, and Hyundai Tiburon 272.
By comparison, my notes indicate that the Echo averaged 119 problems per 100 vehicles. I think this was in 2001, but I am not 100 percent sure. I think the average for 2000 was right around the same mark.
I have some scribbles that indicate 173 for the Lanos and 141 for the Leganza, but I am unsure of the year. These scribbles are on the same page as results for some Hyundai vehicles that match the results for what I believe is 2001 results.
I do agree that J.D. Powers needs to weight the problems due to severity, but I do not believe the claims that the Korean cars' problems are merely cosmetic while the other models' problems are more serious. I do not believe that because no one has come up with a source showing the raw data that J. D. Powers used to compile the results.
Jul 30, 2001 (5:55 am)
I think any award that does not have a firm criteria for being awarded and/or you don't know the criteria ahead of time is dubious at best. I feel that way about the Chairman's award and I would feel that way no matter who it was awarded to.
Jul 30, 2001 (6:04 am)
Given that all your vehicles (either owned or contemplated) would be considered high end, why do you feel strongly about a low end vehicle?
And exactly which low end vehicle was it that you feel strongly about?
Jul 30, 2001 (12:26 pm)
Just so happened that in all my life since i first got my driving license, i have already owned mostly japanese cars. 2 toyotas and 4 hondas. Only last year when i had enough cash that i dared to go for something german. Of which i wasnt disappointed at all. It would be then inherent of me to feel strongly about Japanese cars because i know how they have been and thru my friends car i know how they are now. Given my present status , even i am so happy with my present car, i would gladly go back to a japanese car,( perhaps to an Acura if they bring back the Legend) because i know that they last when properly taken cared of no matter what others say that they have deteriorated reliability and style wise over the years. Style wise- yes they have stagnated but its a very healthy market wherein the competitors keep improving. to trample one in to order to elevate the other is simply wrong. I have been using mostly entry level japanese cars most of my life and some of this cars still put a smile on my face whenever i remember them because they are such nice, small, highly reliable cars.That is why i feel strongly about these low end vehicles. No car in particular but i know most them are worth defending of which i really feel strongly about.
#409 of 3871 JD Power results
Jul 30, 2001 (6:46 pm)
Major, thanks for digging up the JD Power numbers. One question I have, being a '01 Elantra owner, is on the 2001 results, do they reflect the '01 model year or '00 model year? Two things make me believe the 2001 survey may be based on the 2000 model year: 1) the page I found on jdpower.com (which I could not find again when I went back to look for it multiple times) that came up when I searched on "Hyundai Elantra 2001", which gave results for the "Elantra sedan/wagon", and 2) the page I found that gave results for the 2000 survey, dated May 2000. Now if the 2001 results were released in May 2001, that means the data must have been gathered some time before that, then corrolated, and the reports prepared. Since the 2001 Elantra started selling in the U.S. in numbers only in October 2000, that doesn't give much time to build up much of a sample size for the survey. At least the score improved a bit over the 2000 survey. Another weird thing is the huge difference between the Elantra and Tiburon. The Tiburon is built on the 1996-2000 Elantra platform, and has the same engine, yet had 272 defects vs. 187 for the Elantra. Perhaps the Tiburon, being a sporty coupe, is driven harder on average, causing more defects to pop up sooner? (Just a theory...)
I think it's also interesting that the Santa Fe took top honors in JD Powers' Compact SUV category, yet its score was considerably below average for all vehicles. What does that say for the other compact SUVs (which would include the RAV4, right?).
Re the Chairman's Award: I see your point on lack of criteria, I feel the same way about Motor Trend's COTY award--I stopped subscribing when they stopped providing the details on their scoring a few years back. All the Chairman's Award seems to do is recognize overall efforts by Hyundai at quality improvement, which are reflected by the improved scores in the 2001 survey.
#410 of 3871 Again, Mr.major, I'd have to say..............
Jul 30, 2001 (8:17 pm)
that there's nothing wrong with being fanatical about a particular make of car. I have noticed that my Kia Sephia has bucked the negative hype of all of it's many naysayers while Kia sales have continued to go up, up, up. The warranty is more than enough peace of mind to handle any problems that come up. As far as it's looks, yes, I do prefer it's looks to some high faluten Mercedes Benz, Rolls Royce, Lexus, Acura, go ahead and think up another overpriced nameplate vehicle that someone buys to show others that he's "hit the big time and is loads smarter than the average bear." LOL! I could give a rat's hindquarters if some bozo owns a Mercedes or Rolls Royce. No, they don't look better to me than my Sephia and, no, I'm not saving my bucks for a high-faluten "status car". I think the whole circus of going out to impress everybody with what you drive is ridiculous. If somebody wants to waste their time and money in that sinkhole there's plenty of holes to throw money down. Finding a bunch of defect data about vehicle problems is also a waste of time since it's a big crapshoot whether the one you pick will be a "high offending car" anyway. I've got a lot more positive things to contemplate as we head down this life's highway.
Jul 31, 2001 (12:32 pm)
The numbers I gave for 2001 were for 2001 models.
#413 of 3871 Just By Physics....
Jul 31, 2001 (9:26 pm)
The larger the vehicle and more options, the odds for a breakdown increase. Chances are, major will have excellent results with his Echo. Toyota started with small spirited cars like that and I think it's good they are getting back to their roots. If you go back to the late sixties and seventies, some of the same Japanese cars were starting to hold together pretty good. Fact is, you can get away with things building small cars that you can't on the bigger stuff. With bigger cars, parts need to be built stronger by a square factor. In nature, good examples are insects. They can carry many times their own weight. If you scale them to human size, they would probably collapse from their own weight.
When comparing defective parts, it shouldn't be surprising for larger cars with more options score worst than smaller cars.