Last post on Dec 30, 2011 at 9:54 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Toyota ECHO, Chevrolet Aveo, Kia Rio, Nissan Sentra, Honda Fit, Hyundai Accent, Toyota Yaris, Kia Spectra, Suzuki Forenza, Sedan
#3857 of 3871 Re: HIyunday [backy]
May 27, 2011 (8:39 pm)
Your question about why I chose the Aveo is a fair one, so I will try to provide an answer. Before I do however, I must note that your initial assessment is that of it being "quite possibly the worst car currently offered by anyone in the USA" and a "penalty box", and as compared to a Yaris as being "(W)orse. Much worse." That's undeservedly harsh.
Before buying I test drove and compared it with a Yaris and a Fit, all 2009 models. The Yaris was comparable in all the dimensions of usable space and size. The ride was very similar. However the Yaris' interior was like a bad joke. I have owned three other Toyotas that I loved, but everything about the Yaris' interior was absurd. For starters, putting a speedometer in the center of the dashboard is idiotic, there were virtually no gauges, and there were many more inconvenient features of the interior design. I did not feel comfortable driving it and that alone was reason to reject it - not to mention that it cost much more than a similarly equipped Aveo did. Ironically price was no object for me, but I won't overpay just to have brand recognition. IMHO, the Fit was no better for me, in that it had a glitzy interior that had many trendy accessories that I didn't want or need. The supposedly more spacious interior wasn't what it was touted to be; I saw no real advantage to it. The EPA ratings on the others (Rio and Accent) was no better than Aveo; on the Versa it is considerably worse. I didn't bother with either of the former as they are also Korean and the Accent isn't made as a 5 door.
I do my own routine service such as oil changes. Try crawling under a Honda to get to the oil filter. The Aveo is very easy to service and the filter is right under the hood. The others don't have a stainless exhaust system. Aveo does, and it's one less thing to need to replace early on. I've been driving for 40 years. I don't need things like ABS brakes or baby seat securing convenience or accommodation for computer gadgetry.
Apparently the early Aveos were poorly designed and made, but I've never driven one so I'll accept that as a fact. I simply compared the 2009 to others in the same model year and category and found it to be favorably comparable. I judged it on that basis, not a prejudicial one.
My Aveo5 is used for a short daily commute and for local shopping. It doesn't need to ride like a Caddy or accelerate like a Corvette. Fit and finish is absolutely excellent - as good as I've ever seen and every bit as good as the Japanese competition. The interior layout was so much better than the others that I actually enjoy driving it, even though it is a cheap econobox.
Is it the best car ever made? No, but it serves its purpose, and at a price lower than the competition. IMHO, it's a better value, depending on your needs.
But it hardly deserves being derided, either.
May 27, 2011 (11:09 pm)
you stick up for your automotive principles and I respect that. I've been in your shoes...I bought an "early" Kia sedan imported here called the Sephia. It was a whopping total of $7,995. No radio or A/C. 5-speed stick worked pretty well. Pretty bare bones rig. I bought the car in May of 1999 and in early 2001 I took tax return money and bought some Konig Diva wheels and Yokohoma all-season 70,000 mile radials. You wanna talk about a fun ta drive, rig. Loving music like I do of course I had to get an AM/FM/cassette player (no CD player required for this dude) and voila! Rock and roll at decent quality and decent sound (my Sephia already had speakers and wiring in place, but no stereo installed in the dash!!) I remembered the salesman telling me this and found it money-saving and rather peculiar. But now it rocked-literally. Turn up the Foghat, dudes!
This car was a great little car. I would come on here on Edmunds and talk it up. Smash! Pow! What a fool! Kia? Who are they? BAM!
KABOOM! What an idiot! He bought a Kia Sephia....yea-haa-hhaaa-haa-haa. Might as well been talking to a bunch of stepping rock pads on here...no one agreed with me on this one. Well, almost no one.
There were a few of us...I talked the brand up at The Boeing Company's Everett Airplane Division where I worked. My friend from the Skagit Valley had a white '99 Sephia with the 5-speed like mine and his was pulling low 30's per gallon like my violet mist Sephia was in our 45-mile commutes down south to the Everett plant. He said his Sephia was "all right and got the job done."
I thought even better things about my Sephia. I saw a car from a carmaker that was not going to hide it's head in the sand and run. Sure enough, when inquiring of some from South Korea about Sephia clubs the word was "yes of course we have Sephia owner's clubs!" I figured as much.
So I have an idea where you're comin' from, barkydog. I've barked up that same kind of tree as you before. Stand your ground. I recommend purchasing a plastic Revell model of your rig and making it and displaying it proudly. Doesn't that sound like fun?
#3859 of 3871 Re: HIyunday [barkydog]
May 28, 2011 (8:03 am)
Thanks for sharing your perspective. I agree with a lot of points you made, particularly on the Yaris' interior. I hate the center-mounted gauges also, and I think some of the controls esp. the HVAC controls are cheap-feeling. The Yaris also is sluggish with the automatic. I do like the relatively smooth ride of the Yaris, and it has decent rear seat room in the 4-doors, or with the rear seat pushed all the way back in the 2-door. I also like the standard 6 airbags and ABS + ESC in the newer Yarii. When the Yaris first came out, even ABS was hard to find--kinda like on the Aveo now. I have to give Toyota credit for putting those safety features standard on even its lowest-priced car.
On the Fit, I like the handling and the interior versatility. It really does hold a lot of stuff for its size. But I found the rear seat, especially behind the driver (feet cramped because of fuel tank under floor) uncomfortable. Also the driving position isn't real comfy for me, and I think some controls on the dash have a cheap feel. I did seriously look at the base Fit AT back in the fall of 2008, when the redesign came out, but decided to go used instead (a 328Ci, to ease my mid-life crisis... didn't have it long but it was fun while I had it).
I stand by my opinions on the Aveo. I do think its the worst car currently offered in the U.S., for the reasons I listed. That is more because small cars have improved a lot since the current Aveo was designed about ten years ago than the Aveo being an absolutely terrible car. For basic transportation at a low price, it's just fine. It just doesn't compare well, IMO, to more recent designs. I expect the next-gen Aveo, the Sonic, to be much more competitive. FWIW, I own a car designed over ten years ago, a 2004 Elantra. It's a competent car and has held up very well, and back in 2004 it was competitive in its class. But it pales in comparison to the new Elantra and other compact cars available today.
But you made the best choice for you, and that's what it's all about.
May 28, 2011 (11:20 am)
I agree with you on your assessment of the Chevrolet Aveo. Chevy just didn't put the time in to keeping Aveo current, and they don't want to spend the money on it. Hopefully the Sonic is enamored with more up-to-date merchandise.
But it pales in comparison to the new Elantra and other compact cars available today.
#3861 of 3871 Updating an oldie from ten years ago
Dec 24, 2011 (11:21 am)
Accent and Lancer and Sonic and Yaris,
Rio and Scion and Forte and Focus,
but do you recall
the least pricey small car of all?
Versa, the smallest Nissan,
has a very pleasing price
but if you'd ever drive one
you wouldn't think it's quite so nice.
All of the other small cars
used to laugh and call him names;
they never let poor Versa
join them driving down the lanes.
During the recession of twenty-eleven,
Santa came to say,
"Versa, with your price so light,
Won't you guide my sleigh tonight?"
Then all his owners loved him,
and they shouted out with glee,
"Versa, you have a low price,
almost but not quite free!"
Dec 25, 2011 (9:04 am)
What does that Versa get for mileage? My 09 Yaris with automatic got 42-44 mpg at 60 mph on a trip to Alaska this summer. In northern Canada gas was ~ $7 a gallon including 10 cents American to by a Kanuck dollar.
#3863 of 3871 Re: versa [kneisl1]
Dec 25, 2011 (9:37 am)
30/38 for CVT, 27/36 for the manual, on the 2012 sedan according to the EPA.
If the Versa does as well in real-world FE as my 2010 Sentra (with the CVT and a larger engine), I'd expect the Versa to easily get low-to-mid-40s mpg on the highway at 60 mph, which is in the sweet spot for most cars for high FE. My Sentra will top 40 mpg at 60 mph on the highway, and it's only rated 34 mpg highway by the EPA. The CVT is very low revving. On my Sentra it's just a hair over 2000 RPM at 70 mph.
While Nissan improved the FE for the 2012 Versa sedan and kept its roomy back seat, from all reports I've seen the car is a big disappointment otherwise, probably worst in class now that the Aveo is gone and the Accent and Rio are all new and much improved. I'll probably get to drive the new Versa a few times next year as I often get Versas as rentals, then I'll be able to see if it's really as bad as the reviews make it out to be. I've driven the new Accent and Rio and looked at the Sonic and Fiesta and Yaris. They can't match the Versa in rear seat room, but most of them have enough for me.
Dec 25, 2011 (7:34 pm)
if it was between a 2012 Kia Rio sedan and a 2012 Nissan Versa sedan which one would you pick? Also, are the 2012 Kia Rio and 2012 Hyundai Accent pretty close in build and handling and performance to you, since you've driven both of them?
#3865 of 3871 Re: backy... [iluvmysephia1]
Dec 25, 2011 (11:30 pm)
I'd take the Rio sedan, based on what I've seen of the Rio5. Are the 2012 Rio sedans out yet? I haven't seen any on dealer lots yet. The hatches have been out for awhile. The redesigned Versa hatch isn't out yet either... due in 2012.
Between the Rio5 and Accent, I prefer the Accent based on ride (Accent's was smoother), interior styling, and cargo room. But I've taken the Accent off my shopping list because it didn't score that great in the IIHS crash tests, while other hatches I'm looking at (Mazda3, Impreza, Focus, Golf) did. Maybe by the time I'm ready to buy, Hyundai will fix that.
Dec 26, 2011 (8:28 am)
Great little car and my daughter loves her light blue car. The front seats are great for me, as they are comfortable and I can just slide over. Some little warranty issues which have been taken care of with no fuss. Can't wait to see the new hatch also. And I'd be happy to own this as my d d as it does almost everything right!