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Low End Sedans (under $16k)

3819 messages,  Last post on May 29, 2008 at 8:42 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Toyota ECHO, Chevrolet Aveo, Kia Rio, Nissan Sentra, Honda Fit, Hyundai Accent, Toyota Yaris, Kia Spectra, Suzuki Forenza, Sedan


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#3731 of 3819
Re: Will new IIHS scores change your buying decision? [backy] by germancarfan1
Dec 20, 2006 (9:30 am)
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Replying to: backy (Dec 19, 2006 1:41 pm)

They crash their cars too, and probably knew in 2005 what the results would be.
 
That's disgusting for an auto company to do. For over a year Hyundai portrayed the Accent to unsuspecting buyers to be one of the safest cars in its class, yet knew of its serious shortcomings and still didn't attempt to fix them. How anyone could have faith in the brand is beyond me. Also, shame on the IIHS for not releasing these scores for such a long time.
#3732 of 3819
Re: Will new IIHS scores change your buying decision? [germancarfan1] by bobw3
Dec 20, 2006 (9:51 am)
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Replying to: germancarfan1 (Dec 20, 2006 9:30 am)

Don't just blame Hyundai...also blame Cadallic for having every one of their cars get poor ratings on rear crash protection:
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/head_restraints/headrestraints.aspx?cadillac
 
and Chevy Cavalier for getting Poor front crash ratings for the past 10 years
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=294
 
and for Chevy Impala, Silverado, Trailblazer and Uplander for getting Poor ratings on rear crash tests
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/head_restraints/headrestraints.aspx?chevrolet
 
And every Buick for getting Poor rear scores:
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/head_restraints/headrestraints.aspx?buick
 
And Lexus ES 330, GX 470, and RX for getting Poor rear impact scores.
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/head_restraints/headrestraints.aspx?lexus
#3733 of 3819
Re: Will new IIHS scores change your buying decision? [bobw3] by backy
Dec 20, 2006 (9:59 am)
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Replying to: bobw3 (Dec 20, 2006 9:51 am)

While we're beating Hyundai up, let's not forget to give Toyota some knocks upside the head (actually that would be quite appropriate, wouldn't it?). Like Hyundai, they knew from their own crash tests how the Yaris performed--with and without SABs. They knew its performance on the side crash test without SABs was horrendous--it's worse even than that of the Accent and Rio. Yet they decided to make SABs optional on the Yaris and in fact equipped very few Yarii with them for many months, selling tens of thousands of Yarii without this important safety feature. Now they are apparently making more Yarii with SABs, and that's good. But not good enough in my opinion.
#3734 of 3819
Re: Will new IIHS scores change your buying decision? [bobw3] by germancarfan1
Dec 20, 2006 (10:05 am)
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Replying to: bobw3 (Dec 20, 2006 9:51 am)

1. Chevy Cavalier hasn't been made for years. And when it was in production, did Chevy claim it to be one of the safest cars in its class? I doubt Chevy made any claims about its safety at all...just was praying people would buy one.
 
2. Rear impact tests are far less important then front and side impact. The vast majority of cars receive Marginal to Poor rear impact scores, though only few receive both adequate frontal and poor side impact scores.
 
3. Would you like to enlighten us about what Lexus and the Buick got for front and side impact scores? I didn't think so. )
 
Hyundai set itself up for failure. It made unsubstantiated claims that the Accent was one of the safest cars in the class and it didn't deliver. No one else is responsible except for Hyundai.
#3735 of 3819
Re: Will new IIHS scores change your buying decision? [backy] by bobw3
Dec 20, 2006 (10:06 am)
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Replying to: backy (Dec 20, 2006 9:59 am)

I agree that the safety equipment should all be standard, but to be fair, if people just refused to buy cars without the optional equipment and dealers had a bunch of Yaris/Versa, etc...out there sitting on the lot without ABS or SAB, then maybe the move to make the safety featurs standard would occur quicker. But some people are more concerned with getting the right color over the safety equipment.
#3736 of 3819
Re: Will new IIHS scores change your buying decision? [backy] by germancarfan1
Dec 20, 2006 (10:12 am)
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Replying to: backy (Dec 20, 2006 9:59 am)

No problem giving Toyota some knocks, as the Yaris isn't exactly high on my list of cars I would purchase. But then again, I have the Versa, Fit and 2-DR Rabbit as options, cars that safe, stable, made with high quality components (structure anyone?), have better resale value, and don't cost much more than an Accent.
 
I am curious about 2 things:
 
1. Anyone think Accent sales will plument after IIHS released these scores? Then again, not that they have been selling all that great anyway.
 
2. Will the Accent's insurance cost more than before? I'm not sure how insurance companies compute safety into their rates though I do know that a friend who went from a Neon (unsafe car) to a Corolla, saw his rates drop a lot.
#3737 of 3819
Re: Will new IIHS scores change your buying decision? [bobw3] by backy
Dec 20, 2006 (10:16 am)
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Replying to: bobw3 (Dec 20, 2006 10:06 am)

Do you really think people would walk away from the Yaris if it cost a few hundred dollars more and came with standard SABs? I don't think so. ("Hmm, this Yaris has a standard safety feature that the Fit, Versa, Accent, and Rio also have. Oh, forget it then! I'm going to buy a different car!!") There was no slack-off of demand for the new Camry that includes standard SABs, was there?
 
The fact is that Toyota put about as many Yarii with terrible side crash protection on the road as Hyundai put Accents on the road in the past year. It doesn't make Hyundai look any better, but they are not the only irresponsible car company in this situation IMO.
#3738 of 3819
Re: Will new IIHS scores change your buying decision? [germancarfan1] by backy
Dec 20, 2006 (10:23 am)
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Replying to: germancarfan1 (Dec 20, 2006 10:12 am)

Re structure: how much more than an Accent (or Yaris) does a Versa weigh? A Rabbit? All that extra steel has its advantages, as has been pointed out by the IIHS.
 
I don't think the IIHS scores will help the sales of the Accent or Rio any. Big rebates, anyone? I expect there will be some impact on insurance rates, unless insurers already put high risk numbers on the Accent and Rio based on their prior designs--since they had nothing else to go on before now.
#3739 of 3819
Re: Will new IIHS scores change your buying decision? [backy] by germancarfan1
Dec 20, 2006 (10:49 am)
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Replying to: backy (Dec 20, 2006 10:23 am)

The Honda fit weighs in at 2432 lbs while the Accent GLS weighs in at 2366, yet the Fit performed very well in the tests. A difference of a mere 66 lbs wasn't the reason the Fit did better, better engineering and use of higher quality components was. Look at the IIHS structure numbers for example. *Negative numbers indicate the amount by which the crush stopped short of the seat centerline. The intrusion in the Accent stopped a mere 4.0 inches before the center line of the seat compared with 9.5 inches for the Yaris WITHOUT airbags and 7.5 inches for the Fit. Also note the Rabbit/Jetta with 15.5 inches. I wouldn't be suprised if the Accent's structure was indeed made from outmeal
 
But what does weight matter anyway if one can buy a a far safer car (albeit a bit heavier) for not much difference in price. Seems to be a good deal since one is getting all that extra steel for not much more dough.
#3740 of 3819
Re: Will new IIHS scores change your buying decision? [germancarfan1] by backy
Dec 20, 2006 (11:02 am)
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Replying to: germancarfan1 (Dec 20, 2006 10:49 am)

I think the differences in intrusion were due to structural issues as well as differences in crash space. I would expect the Rabbit is considerably wider than the other cars you mentioned (except maybe the Versa). But still the Accent's intrusion was 3.5-5.5 inches more than cars in its own class. Also, airbags don't help much if any on the degree of intrusion; they are there to keep body parts from hitting the metal that is moving towards them.
 
Yes, it is possible to buy a heavier car for not much more dough than an Accent or Rio, although there is a penalty to pay in fuel economy, at least with the Rabbit, which is heavier than even the Versa. The Fit in particular, and also the Versa when it comes more readily with ABS, seem to offer the best blend of fuel economy and safety. The Yaris would be right up there too if SABs and ABS were standard as on the Fit, or at least readily available.
 
At the price of a Rabbit or a Versa SL (more readily available with ABS as of early next year), there are alternatives in the compact and even mid-sized class that offer a good blend of safety and economy also, in particular the Civic. Even some mid-sizers with ABS and SABs, e.g. the Mazda6i and Sonata GLS, are available for around $16k.

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