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Low End Sedans (under $16k)

3820 messages,  Last post on Nov 24, 2008 at 9:45 AM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Toyota ECHO, Chevrolet Aveo, Kia Rio, Nissan Sentra, Honda Fit, Hyundai Accent, Toyota Yaris, Kia Spectra, Suzuki Forenza, Sedan


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#3726 of 3820
Re: Will new IIHS scores change your buying decision? [bobw3] by backy
Dec 19, 2006 (1:02 pm)
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Replying to: bobw3 (Dec 19, 2006 12:55 pm)

I don't follow you. If you are in a more reclined position, wouldn't your head naturally be closer to the headrest? I would think if you are too upright, the distance to the headrest might be greater--hence the value of active head restraints.
#3727 of 3820
Re: Will new IIHS scores change your buying decision? [backy] by bobw3
Dec 19, 2006 (1:13 pm)
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Replying to: backy (Dec 19, 2006 1:02 pm)

When the seat is reclined, you head isn't reclined with the rest of your body, otherwise you'd be staring up at the ceiling. When the seat is reclined, you have to tilt your head forward to see forward. You head will be in a vertical position no matter what the seat position.
 
Imagine if the seat were completely verticle (uncomforatble), then the back of your head would touch the headrest because they're both vertical. With the seat reclined and the headrest at the same angle of the seat, you have to tilt your head forward to see forward, and the more you tilt your head forward, the greater the distance to the headrest. If you try it in extreme vertical/angled position you can really see the difference. I had a Mazda RX-7 and the headrest could be manually tilted foward, so when you're sitting at an angle you could move the headrest so it's closer to the back of your head. In my Freestyle when I'm sitting more upright, I can feel the headrest against the back of my head (probably why the Freestyle received a Good rear rating).
#3728 of 3820
Re: Will new IIHS scores change your buying decision? [bobw3] by backy
Dec 19, 2006 (1:41 pm)
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Replying to: bobw3 (Dec 19, 2006 1:13 pm)

Seems kind of uncomfortable, moving my head forward like that. I don't recline my seat that much (there's other issues such as submarining), but if I did I'd probably just tilt my eyes down to compensate.
 
I suspect the main reason these cars didn't get good rear crash ratings overall (except the Versa) is that the headrests aren't moveable fore/aft, actively or manually.
#3729 of 3820
Re: Will new IIHS scores change your buying decision? [bobw3] by crimsona
Dec 20, 2006 (7:19 am)
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Replying to: bobw3 (Dec 19, 2006 1:13 pm)

Quite true. Just tried it in a co-workers Fit (I uh, decided to jump 2 feet high concrete walls with mine). When you recline the back seat all the way and lean your head back, your eyes are facing closer to the ceiling than the front, so you do end up tilting your head forward.
#3731 of 3820
Re: Will new IIHS scores change your buying decision? [backy] by germancarfan1
Dec 20, 2006 (8:30 am)
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Replying to: backy (Dec 19, 2006 12:41 pm)

They crash their cars too, and probably knew in 2005 what the results would be.
 
That's disgusting for an auto company to do. For over a year Hyundai portrayed the Accent to unsuspecting buyers to be one of the safest cars in its class, yet knew of its serious shortcomings and still didn't attempt to fix them. How anyone could have faith in the brand is beyond me. Also, shame on the IIHS for not releasing these scores for such a long time.
#3732 of 3820
Re: Will new IIHS scores change your buying decision? [germancarfan1] by bobw3
Dec 20, 2006 (8:51 am)
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Replying to: germancarfan1 (Dec 20, 2006 8:30 am)

Don't just blame Hyundai...also blame Cadallic for having every one of their cars get poor ratings on rear crash protection:
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/head_restraints/headrestraints.aspx?cadillac
 
and Chevy Cavalier for getting Poor front crash ratings for the past 10 years
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=294
 
and for Chevy Impala, Silverado, Trailblazer and Uplander for getting Poor ratings on rear crash tests
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/head_restraints/headrestraints.aspx?chevrolet
 
And every Buick for getting Poor rear scores:
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/head_restraints/headrestraints.aspx?buick
 
And Lexus ES 330, GX 470, and RX for getting Poor rear impact scores.
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/head_restraints/headrestraints.aspx?lexus
#3733 of 3820
Re: Will new IIHS scores change your buying decision? [bobw3] by backy
Dec 20, 2006 (8:59 am)
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Replying to: bobw3 (Dec 20, 2006 8:51 am)

While we're beating Hyundai up, let's not forget to give Toyota some knocks upside the head (actually that would be quite appropriate, wouldn't it?). Like Hyundai, they knew from their own crash tests how the Yaris performed--with and without SABs. They knew its performance on the side crash test without SABs was horrendous--it's worse even than that of the Accent and Rio. Yet they decided to make SABs optional on the Yaris and in fact equipped very few Yarii with them for many months, selling tens of thousands of Yarii without this important safety feature. Now they are apparently making more Yarii with SABs, and that's good. But not good enough in my opinion.
#3734 of 3820
Re: Will new IIHS scores change your buying decision? [bobw3] by germancarfan1
Dec 20, 2006 (9:05 am)
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Replying to: bobw3 (Dec 20, 2006 8:51 am)

1. Chevy Cavalier hasn't been made for years. And when it was in production, did Chevy claim it to be one of the safest cars in its class? I doubt Chevy made any claims about its safety at all...just was praying people would buy one.
 
2. Rear impact tests are far less important then front and side impact. The vast majority of cars receive Marginal to Poor rear impact scores, though only few receive both adequate frontal and poor side impact scores.
 
3. Would you like to enlighten us about what Lexus and the Buick got for front and side impact scores? I didn't think so. )
 
Hyundai set itself up for failure. It made unsubstantiated claims that the Accent was one of the safest cars in the class and it didn't deliver. No one else is responsible except for Hyundai.
#3735 of 3820
Re: Will new IIHS scores change your buying decision? [backy] by bobw3
Dec 20, 2006 (9:06 am)
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Replying to: backy (Dec 20, 2006 8:59 am)

I agree that the safety equipment should all be standard, but to be fair, if people just refused to buy cars without the optional equipment and dealers had a bunch of Yaris/Versa, etc...out there sitting on the lot without ABS or SAB, then maybe the move to make the safety featurs standard would occur quicker. But some people are more concerned with getting the right color over the safety equipment.

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