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Sedans Low End Sedans (under $16k)
3820 messages, Last post on Nov 24, 2008 at 9:45 AM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Iluv, I am sure glad that you don't worry about quality and I am sure that Kia is glad too. I have said it before, but the Sephia had 255 problems per 100 vehicles in the latest J.D. Powers survey. Who knows how many problems there were with the 1999 Sephia. I also know there were three recalls involving the 1999 Sephia. Finally, there were many reports of brake problems. Yeah, Kia and its quality sure has the rest of the automotive world worried. Personally, you crack me up. You cannot beat people on a little something called facts when it comes to measures of quality, reliability, overall safety and resale values so you resort to name calling. But if it makes you feel better about your purchase, be my guest. |
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| Yeah, right. Like I'm supposed to bow down to somebody who overly praises a Toyota Echo. Major, I'm not going to memorize a bunch of stats from the automotive "experts" or copy them down from articles from all over the place to try to prove my point. No need. I've found a car manufacturer that makes a great looking, quality car at a low price. Oh, that's right. You're busy finding trash on Hyundai-ooops I suppose it's just Kia that you hate. Sorry to bother you. If that Echo ever gets that lasagne uncorked please have the decency to not dump it on public land. There's enough Honda and Toyota quality all over the place as it is. I'll let you borrow my sledgehammer for free, though. No charge-that's just the kind of guy I am. | |
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the only thing you find to criticize about Toyotas and Hondas is the styling -- which is an entirely personal matter anyway. There's more to a car than the sheetmetal, guys -- and I'm perfectly willing to concede the point that the Echo is a homely little mutha. But if that's all you can say bad about it, I think the rest of us will stick to a proven quantity until time and experience prove us wrong. In the meantime, enjoy your cars -- just try not to be so defensive and shrill about them, because it gives us the distinct impression that you're just trying to convince yourselves. You certainly haven't convinced us. |
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Where have I said that I hate any car company? I do not hate Kia, Hyundai, or Daewoo. The problem I have is that people are running around claiming that cars from these companies are so great and so much better than anything put out by the Japanese or anyone else. The facts, which you conveniently pooh pooh, show otherwise. Yes, the vehicles from these three makers cost less, but that does not mean they are a better overall value. A word of advice. If you are using your insults trying to get a negative reaction from me, save your fingers. It is a waste of time. |
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| My 2001 Echo has not had one recall. Not one. Iluv, can you say the same about your 1999 Sephia? | |
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| and not hide them. I'm just stating a point that nothing in my Kia experience or my treatment from my dealer or Kia themselves has caused me alarm. I'm not saying Kia's or Hyundai's are the best cars in the world. What I am saying is that they've produced a nice solidly-built car for a very affordable price. The warranty ain't bad, either. The looks can't be beat. No kidding. I like the Sephia's looks over ANY car on the road. That includes the whole snotty circus you can find out there. I like that. I like the looks of my Sephia with it's Yokohama's and Konig's. I saw another one at the store tonight that's the same color but with another brand of wheel on it. Looked great. Across the way sat a Hyundai Santa Fe. Looked fantastic. What I'm saying is that all you "it's got to be Japanese or it don't shine" types are real dim-witted about Hyundai's and Kia's. Just because some stupid magazine like Car and Dribbler prints a bunch of paid-off drivel putting down Kia you believe it? Think for yourselves. Oh well, I'll just sit back, enjoy my Sephia and continue to enjoy Hyundai and Kia's sales success as it climbs up. Continue to dig your bland looking overpriced Japanese vehicles. It's your choice. | |
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Would you care to give us proof as to what problems (that have been hidden) you are talking about? Are you talking about Mitsu? That is true that they hid problems, but my car is from Toyota. What problems do you say Toyota has hidden? I am not saying that the Japanese cars are the best in the world. I am just saying that Japanese cars in general are better than Daewoo, Hyundai, or Kia. You say, "they've produced a nice, solidly-built car for a very affordable price." You know what? That is the same way I feel about my Echo. You also say, "the warranty ain't bad, either." I believe you said that you bought your vehicle before the 10 year/100,000 mile power train went into effect. If so, you must agree with me that Toyota does not have a bad warranty either. I feel very confident that I will need to use my warranty less than you will. I also feel confident that I will have less non-routine work done out of warranty than Kia owners with a longer warranty will have done within the warranty. Here you go again with the insults. You say,"all you "it's got to be Japanese or it don't shine types" are real dim-witted about Hyundai's [sic] and Kia's [sic]. Just because some stupid magazine like Car and Dribbler prints a bunch of paid-off drivel putting down Kia you believe it. Think for yourselves." You might want to brush up on libel laws because you just libeled Car and Driver unless you can prove that they are paid off. I don't really trust Car and Driver's opinions about cars, but I use them as a source for performance data along with some other sources. I have two facts that prove Car and Driver is not paid off. For what is worth, they have not been that complementary toward the Echo. Not that I agree with them. If they had been paid off, they would have heaped praise on the Echo. The second fact is that they did a review of the Rio. If they had been paid off, as you allege, they would have savaged the car. They did point out the car's faults, but in the final analysis, the verdict was that the Rio was "a decent ride." I guess in your mind, good review for a Korean car means independent source and bad review for a Korean car means paid off hack? Yes, I think for myself. I take information from many different sources (including my own personal observations) before coming to a decision. Finally, you say, "the looks can't be beat." Well, that is the way I feel about my Echo. Yes, there are some styling points I would change about it, but overall I think it is the best looking car on the road today. Definitely not bland. One more thing. I challenge you to find any post of mine where I say that I hate the looks of any of the Korean offerings. You won't be able to do it. I stay away from things like style generally because they are subjective. My posts deal mainly with things like skid pad numbers, 0 to 60 times, initial quality surveys, and satisfaction surveys. I feel these are more objective. Yes, I do bring up issues of comfort and value, but I am trying to give a well rounded view. When I am posting in my comparison discussion about the Echo versus other cars and another car beats the Echo in some measure, I will let people know. It is just the kind of guy I am. Care to try to answer the fact that Sephia owners reported 250 initial quality problems in the most recent J.D. Powers survey? Care to try to answer the fact that Echo owners were more satisfied with their vehicle than Sephia owners were with their vehicle in the most recent Auto Pacific Vehicle Satisfaction Survey? Care to try to answer that without using insults or bringing up style? |
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Since I guess the Kia Sephia is SO much better than any Japanese car... would you care to enlighten me on how it bests my Protege ES? I'm sorry, but the Koreans are still attempting to catch up to the Japanese, not the other way around! It seems to me that in most comparison tests, the Korean cars fall way behind the Japanese vehicles. I'm not saying they're unreliable or have poor quality... I'm just saying that they still don't match the standards set by the Japanese and their refinement is still way off. |
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I am sure that in the final analysis, Iluv will say that his Sephia is better than your Protege ES because your car is so bland and his is so stylish. ; ) |
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| A few posts ago, I asked Iluv to explain about the fact that the Sephia was reported to have 250 initial quality issues. I need to make a correction. The Rio is the one with 250 initial quality issues. The Sephia actually has 255 issues. This according to the most recent J.D. Powers survey. | |
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