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Low End Sedans (under $16k)

3871 messages,  Last post on Dec 30, 2011 at 10:54 AM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Toyota ECHO, Chevrolet Aveo, Kia Rio, Nissan Sentra, Honda Fit, Hyundai Accent, Toyota Yaris, Kia Spectra, Suzuki Forenza, Sedan

Messages Page 199 of 388

#1976 of 3871 lawman1967 by backy

Sep 23, 2002 (8:39 pm)

Good points, but your dates are a little off...
 
* The current Cavalier/Sunfire platform debuted in the fall of '94 as a '95 model, and was a full redesign of the original '82 platform. The update for '03 is the first significant one since the '95 model.
 
* The original Saturn S platform debuted in 1990.
 
* There was no "old Focus"--there's only been one Focus platform. The tweaks for '03 are minor.
 
* The current Accent platform debuted in the fall of '99 as a 2000 model, and was a complete redesign of the '95-'99 Accent. The changes for '03 are a facelift and more power standard.
 
* The Rio may share some components with the Aspire, but the body and interior were all-new just a couple of years ago. For '03 the Rio gets styling tweaks and a more powerful engine (I think the same engine as the Accent).
 
When was the last time you saw Honda make significant updates to a new design for the next two years following the new design, as they have done with the Civic? I think that shows increased competitiveness in the low-end car space (or maybe just that the redesigned '01 Civic was lacking). Another sign of increased competitiveness: I drove a 2002 Sentra GXE today, and it's already way outclassed IMO by competitors like Corolla, Civic, Elantra, Lancer, Protege, Focus, and Aerio. And it still has two more years to go on the current platform! Note also that Nissan hasn't made any significant changes to the low-end Sentras since the redesign three years ago. They just aren't keeping up.

#1977 of 3871 Backy by lawman1967

Sep 23, 2002 (9:31 pm)

I beg to differ. GM CALLED the Sunfire/Cavalier a totally new platform, but it was the same J-platform with significant updating. This has been done many times before by many car companies, as was the Accent and Rio you also claim as completely new platforms. I can assure you, they are not. I lived in Korea when those cars came out, and know people at Hyundai. Low-end cars tend to get completely new platforms rather seldonme, making due with very comprehensive overhauls of existing platforms. Even the current Buick Century is essentially the same car as the Chevrolet Celebrity of the mid 80s. THe new one is vastly superior in every way (a platform GM has invested real money in), but it is the same platform, which even in the 80s was one of their batter ones.
 
The Cavalier was a dreadful car, and while MUCH improved for 95, remained a dreadful car. While the Accent was stretched, widened and up-powered, it was a great little car to begin with, and has remained a great, not quite as little car in its freshenings. The Elantra, in contrast, is a completely new platform.

#1978 of 3871 More corrections by jimbeaumi

Sep 24, 2002 (12:51 pm)

I am in no way defending GM, but the current Buick Century is NOT essentially the same car as a Celebrity. The Celebrity, however was an indirect descendent of the X-car Citation. I know people who worked on these platforms at GM, and there was one new design between the lamentable Celebrity and the lamentable Century.

#1979 of 3871 backy by lngtonge18

Sep 24, 2002 (1:28 pm)

Good review of the Aerio. I think you wrote an informative and fair comparison. I have noticed the same passenger side door buzz at moderate speaker volume with +2 bass on my 03 SX. I need to find a way to fix it because it ruins the sound of certain songs (usually the techno type). Otherwise, I have had no other problems with rattles.

#1980 of 3871 New, or Improved? by backy

Sep 24, 2002 (7:56 pm)

>>> GM CALLED the Sunfire/Cavalier a totally new platform, but it was the same J-platform with significant updating. <<< Whatever. I just know that the '95 Cavafire had an all-new body, all-new interior, and the chassis had at minimum SIGNIFICANT updates based on its on-road performance--there's no comparison between the ride and handling of the '94 and '95 models. If you don't consider that a new platform, that's fine with me. I do agree that the '95 Cavafire remained a dreadful car--not bad looking though, in 2-door trim. Now then--what compensation should we demand from GM for lying to us all these years about the "all-new" platform they say they have been selling since late '94? How many millions of cars would be involved? This has got to be worth a lot more than the misstated horsepower ratings for Hyundais.

#1981 of 3871 Pro #1, Elantra #2 in low-end car shootout by backy

Oct 01, 2002 (8:59 pm)

In the November Car and Driver, the Protege LX outscored the Elantra GLS by one point overall in a comparo of low-end sedans. They topped the Corolla, Civic, Lancer, Aerio, and several others in the under-$16,000 class (very close to the $15k threshhold for this board). It leaves one to wonder what would the results have been if they had tested the 2003 Elantra GT sedan, with better handling (the Pro won mainly based on its handling) and more equipment, and still a price well under $16k.

#1982 of 3871 backy by newcar31

Oct 02, 2002 (5:50 am)

You can get a Protege ES for less than $16K that has more equipment than the LX and has better handling.

#1983 of 3871 newcar31 by backy

Oct 02, 2002 (7:55 pm)

Since I responded to your similar post in other boards, I'll do it here too. You can get an Elantra GT for around $12,500 that has better handling than the GLS (whether it's better than the Pro ES is a subjective thing) and lots more equipment than the Pro ES. So what is your point?

#1984 of 3871 backy by newcar31

Oct 03, 2002 (5:50 am)

"It leaves one to wonder what would the results have been if they had tested the 2003 Elantra GT sedan, with better handling (the Pro won mainly based on its handling) and more equipment, and still a price well under $16k."
 
My point was that you can get an ES Protege for less than $16K also. What equipment are you talking about? I don't want leather, ABS, or traction control.

#1985 of 3871 newcar by jimbeaumi

Oct 03, 2002 (12:52 pm)

It appears that backy was following C/D's criteria, and refers to MSRP when he suggests the GT's inclusion in the November test. It will still list for under $16K (unless COMPLETELY loaded), whereas the Protege ES will not.

Messages Page 199 of 388

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