Last post on Dec 30, 2011 at 9:54 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Toyota ECHO, Chevrolet Aveo, Kia Rio, Nissan Sentra, Honda Fit, Hyundai Accent, Toyota Yaris, Kia Spectra, Suzuki Forenza, Sedan
Jun 10, 2002 (6:50 pm)
Why is it you want me and others to buckle and agree with your findings, but when something goes against the Echo it must be wrong and you never want to admit the Echo did in fact LOSE? I would be happy just to hear you admit that simple fact. It lost, was found to have issues and not to be perfect. ADMIT IT!!
Ok, now that I got that out of my system, let's move on. Whether you want to believe a professional over your own views is your right. However, keep in mind these people do this for a living. They drive cars that cost thousands more then the Echo and Accent and thus have access to much nicer, higher quality cars. They know quality when they see it and they know when a car has bad handling traits. The fact they were impressed with the Accent's quality means something, so does the fact they found the Echo's suspension unsettled. This wasn't the only test that found problems with the Echo's build quality either. If it was, it would give me pause. However, Car and Driver complained of much lower build quality then what they expected from Toyota. Two tests with similar findings leads to a common theme.
I never said there was a large group of owners who claim the Accent is higher quality then the Echo. What I did say is that a lot more people are turning to the Accent and finding a car worthy of buying. In 2001, the Accent outsold the Echo by a wide margin. Sales mean something. People wouldn't buy it if it was junk. I put no stock whatsoever in what jdpowers says or CR. They simply don't poll enough owners to mean anything. I never got a JD power quality survey for my Accent nor my Lancer. I did get a JD power survey on the sales experience and service experience for the Lancer, but that's it. Out of curiousity, are you referring to the initial quality survey, or the one after a few years of ownership? If the latter, they most likely are referring to the pre-2000 Accent, which did have lower build quality. Last time I looked on there (about a year ago, before they started charging to see stuff), they had no new info on the 00-01 Accent because too few people responded to the polls. That tells you something right there about their validity. Anywho, this debate could go on endlessly. You like your Echo and hate the Accent. I hate the Echo and like my Accent. We will just have to leave it at that.
Jun 10, 2002 (7:02 pm)
You make a good point and bring something to light. You are correct in that magazine writers often do have pre-conceived notions about cars. That's what made it so surprising to see them place a Hyundai over a Toyota. It's heresy almost.
Jun 10, 2002 (7:57 pm)
What I was trying to point out was that majorthomecho was touting a "predicted" reliability rating. This means it is predicted to be a good car, but it's not known to be an absolute fact. Whether it holds up to it is anyone's guess. More then likely it will. Hyundai is still playing catch up, but the chances of getting a bad one is becoming smaller and smaller. There isn't much difference between them anymore. About the only place where I foresee Toyota doing better is after the 150k mark. I personally don't keep a car in this class that long so I don't worry about it. Would I suggest an Echo over an Accent? Only if the person cared only about long term reliability and nothing else and was the type who was scared to take a risk. I'm one that is willing to take a gamble and it has always proven to go against common knowledge. For instance, the worst used car I ever bought was a Honda Civic. My VW Fox and Mitsubishi Diamante were way better cars, but most people would say those cars were crap, especially the Fox (which happened to be the most rock solid, rattle free late 80s European car I have ever been in, surpassing even some Japanese cars and it was built in, gasssppp, Brazil!). I currently own an 84 U.S. built VW Rabbit GTI with over 200k. Most people say the Rabbit, especially the US built one, is among some of the worst cars on the road. I have owned the car for over 7 years and it has been very reliable (more reliable then my mom's 86 and 92 Accords) and continues to show no signs of conking out. It also survived me through 3 accidents, 2 of which could have been severe. I also owned an 84 Mazda RX7. Most people say the rotary engine is unreliable and a nightmare because they are afraid of anything that is different. My experience was the complete opposite. That engine was superbly reliable and completely bulletproof. I wish I still had it. Most people claim first year cars are nightmares. My 00 Accent has had no recalls and only 2 dealer repairs in 2 years of ownership. My 02 Lancer has been completely trouble free and has had no recalls. Compare that to recent 01 Civics, the 01 Sentras, and the 03 Corollas. All of them have had recalls and some sort of first year quality issues. When something like that is mentioned, the naysayers immediately defend the cars by saying "oh, well, it only affected a few and its to be expected because it was a first year model". Well, I'll be damned if I expected any problems with either of my first year cars. My experience is why I no longer believe what the "masses" say. It's gotten to the point where I think a lot of people are simply blinded to everything that doesn't have Toyota or Honda on it and are missing out on good cars in the process. But, its all good, because it keeps the prices down on the good cars that they pass up. I for one am perfectly capable of deciding on my own what constitutes a good car. I don't need a large group to tell me that. If listening to the "masses" is what makes you feel better about a purchase, that's fine, but it doesn't mean they are automatically right (and in my experience they have been dead wrong) . Anyway, hope my ranting made some sense.
Jun 10, 2002 (11:23 pm)
all i gotta say is WELL PUT.....
#1880 of 3871 Toyota Has the Best Quality ; Again
Jun 11, 2002 (12:05 am)
"The 2002 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey is out, and it's no surprise that Toyota once again is ranked as the top automaker, followed closely by Honda."
News: Regular News: Articles Edmund.com
#1881 of 3871 lngtonge18...
Jun 11, 2002 (5:07 am)
cool, basically you agreed with what I said. The Echo has been a proven car and the Accent is at this point unproven as far as STATISTICAL sources say about reliability.
As far as subjective things like how it rides and whether the seating position is good or not, i can't say because I'm not you but I don't like the Accent. Then again I'm overweight I have short legs and a tall spine. If I say a car isn't comfortable then it doesn't matter much to the rest of the world because my demographic is so small (GRIN)
I know personally if I were to buy a Korean car Hundai is top on my list.
On a side note does anyone know which Korean car has a tall roofed hatchback with pivoting front seats? I saw this at a car show and for the life of me I can't remember what car it was. I can't find any site that lists that as being an option. It wasn't a figment of my imagination it was at the autoshow in MPLS and it has to be either a Daewoo or Kia because they were in the same room together. (along with the conversion vans) Did I actually see this or am I nuts?
Jun 11, 2002 (8:44 am)
I think what you saw was a Daewoo Tacuma (also called Rezzo). It was supposed to come to the US but now I guess that won't happen. A pity because it looked like a neat little wagon. By the way, what did you think of it after seeing it in person?
Jun 11, 2002 (10:12 am)
Where have I said that I hate the Accent? I just don't think that it is as good of a car as my Echo.
And I admitted that Motor Trend chose the Accent over the Echo. AGAIN, that does not mean I agree with them.
Lng, you seem to be arguing so strongly that professional auto reviewers know what they are talking about than I guess that means you agree the Suzuki Aerio deserved the last place finish that Car And Driver gave it in its recent comparo?
Jun 11, 2002 (10:14 am)
I don't remember which mag it was but someone did a study of ad space as it related to this mag's car of the year award. The researcher found the car of the year award went to the buyer of the most ad space. And auto magazines say they are objective.
#1885 of 3871 lngtonge18...
Jun 11, 2002 (10:19 am)
Thank god I thought I was crazy. The seats had a very cheap feeling to them. I think they must have made them lighter so that they would be easier to pivot. It was very tall and had gads of headroom the hatch area wasn't very large (a little less floor space than a Forester but taller) but the back seats were pretty roomy. It gave me the overall impression of "budget" but not unusually so. I didn't like the seating position (see above post for why that doesn't matter). Overall it seemed ok, it felt like it had lots of room and you could pivot the front seats to look at the rear. (I was trying to figure out if the seatbelts would work with the seats backwards and couldn't figure out how they would) sitting on the passenger side of a car looking backwards is realy odd. Obviously I didn't get a chance to drive it so I couldn't tell all. From what I remember I'll give you a list of Pro's and Con's
Lots of Features
Cool Swiveling seats
useful folding backseats (35/30/35
Good legroom in back seats
Front seats felt cheap (real squishy)
driving position was low in a tall car
Plastic felt "cheap"
Doors made "poing" noise when closing (door metal vibrated like a drum)
Anyway take it with a grain of salt. This was in Feb and it was one of the last things I looked at. Not that it matters anyway us guys in the USA will never see it now.