Last post on Dec 30, 2011 at 9:54 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Toyota ECHO, Chevrolet Aveo, Kia Rio, Nissan Sentra, Honda Fit, Hyundai Accent, Toyota Yaris, Kia Spectra, Suzuki Forenza, Sedan
Jun 10, 2002 (9:12 am)
Always pulling that predicted reliability card as the Echo's only defense are we? Why not just admit the Accent was deemed a better overall driving car then the Echo and leave it at that? So what if the Echo has the "possibility" of being a more reliable car? That means nothing to me if its a poor value, is not fun to drive, has lower build quality, less comfort, and the funkiest styling this side of the Aztec. Reliability is a factor, but it shouldn't be the only pro in a car's favor. I expect a car to offer more then just reliability. Regardless, Hyundai is closing fast in reliability so I no longer feel that Toyota has a huge gain in that area either. Take away the Echo's "predicted reliability" trump card, and what does it have left? Fuel economy and thats pretty much it. I would take the better driving, more comfortable, higher value, longer warranty, higher quality car any day over the one that "may" have better reliability. And it appears more and more people are beginning to think like me. Witness 2001's sales figures as an example.
P.S. Did the other M/T Echo have ABS? The Echo tested by Car and Driver had good brakes but it had ABS. Apparently, without ABS, the Echo doesn't stop too good. That's a good example of how ABS contributes to better stopping distances even on dry pavement, contrary to what most people think.
Jun 10, 2002 (10:13 am)
My experience is that the Echo is very comfortable, very fun to drive and pretty much my opinion runs counter to what the naysayers have said.
I have no idea on the ABS. I do know that Consumer Reports also tested a manual Echo and it stopped in a decent distance. Again, I don't know if it was ABS equipped or not. I also know that I had to do a panic stop at a speed much greater than sixty miles per hour and it did not feel like it took a long distance.
I guess we can sum up your position that you would rather own a car you are more likely NOT to be driving because it is in the shop than a car you are more likely to be driving and not in the shop?
And I will admit that the editors of Motor Trend found the Accent to be a better driving experience. That does not mean I agree with them.
Don't you think you should get Backy to admit that the owners of Echoes, evidently, reported [to Consumer Reports] a lot fewer problems than did owners of Elantras?
Jun 10, 2002 (10:19 am)
Here is something of a ranking of how I view opinions.
1) Opinions from large groups of owners.
2) Opinions of one or just a few owners.
3) Opinions of auto reviewers who keep a car a long time.
4) Opinions of auto reviewers who have a car on a short term basis.
Jun 10, 2002 (10:24 am)
"I would take the better driving, more comfortable, higher value, longer warranty, higher quality car any day over the one that "may" have better reliability."
This is where you tell me that the Echo MAY have better reliability.
"Regardless, Hyundai is closing fast in reliability..."
This is where you tell me that the Accent MAY have good reliability. What's the difference?
If someone has been burned by a badly manufactured car (ahem, Cavalier) and wants a realiable car, Which one is more likely to be reliable? You tell me that Hundai is gaining on Toyota and that the Echo MAY be a reliable car. If you have lots of miles to drive and only car about reliability and don't want the hassle of an unreliable car which one is going to get choosen?
#1869 of 3871 BMW coming to the low end?
Jun 10, 2002 (10:39 am)
Has anyone checked out the latest issue of Automobile magazine? They have computer mock-ups of the BMW 1-Series. They took the open roadster concept car and gave it various roof and door layouts. The coupe really caught my eye. If the actual car looks like that and the price is $15,000 or less (as expected), my next car might be a Bimmer.
Jun 10, 2002 (10:41 am)
Lng, would you please show me where a large group of people have indicated that the Accent has better quality than the Echo?
Backy, you made a statement sometime back that implied the 2002 Accent ranked higher in the JD Powers survey than did the 2002 Echo. If you have a source, would you please post a link?
#1871 of 3871 Inconsistent or Incompetent?
Jun 10, 2002 (10:44 am)
I want to point out that I said the editors at Motor Trend were inconsistent. It was the other side that called their supporting source incompetent.
If someone told me, "Hey, the guy is incompetent in certain areas, but you can still trust him," I would not feel very reassured.
#1872 of 3871 Body and interior quality
Jun 10, 2002 (10:58 am)
Much has been made about Motor Trend saying the Accent was a better car than the Echo in terms of quality.
Well, what do actual owners say about the body and interior quality of the cars?
According to the JD Powers consumer site (http:///www.jdpower.com), the Accent scored three out of five stars in this area. This means its body and interior quality did not really stand out.
Hey, this must mean the Echo did really, really bad. Right? WRONG!
The Echo scored five out of five stars in this area. This means its body and interior quality is among the best.
Jun 10, 2002 (1:58 pm)
lng & backy
why bother people will think what they want . you can't measure reliability by what this mag says and what that survey said . it is all hit or miss . if jd powers sent surveys to ALL new car buyers then u could use the info . but they don't . they might at best send them out to 10% and i think thats alot . you can't get a real feel for that few . Major loves his echo , and he has a right to . you are just wasteing your time and efford
Jun 10, 2002 (2:48 pm)
It's clear the MT review has struck a nerve. I suggest that you learn to live with other people not agreeing with you that the ECHO is the Greatest Car on the Planet, or you will bust an artery some day.
In case you didn't read my earlier post, I did acknowledge the ECHO's top rating for predicted reliability in CR's Small Car class. I said "The ECHO's showing in CR's list for Small Cars is impressive,...". Based on CR's latest survey, the ECHO came out better in predicted reliability than the Elantra. That is a fact. I don't dispute facts. As you said, no one really knows if the Accent and Rio would have knocked the ECHO out of the top spot for Small Cars. Maybe next year those cars will be included in CR's ratings and then we'll know.
I don't recall making a claim that J.D. Powers ranked an Accent above an ECHO. I remember doing some kind of post a long time ago regarding J.D. Powers' online comparator, and I think one of the cars was the ECHO but I don't remember what the other car was. It might have been the Elantra; I don't think it was the Accent. If you find my post maybe you can refresh my memory.
Here is how I rank opinions:
1) Opinions of people I personally know and respect.
2) Opinions based on statistical evidence from a large sample; i.e., opinions backed by facts. Surveys that are based on subjective questions, e.g. J.D. Powers and CR's, are of some value but are tainted by the subjectivity of the questions.
3) Opinions based on first-hand, everyday use over a long period of time, e.g. like the long-term tests from Edmunds.com and other reviewers.
Other opinions aren't really worth that much to me except for entertainment value and to start a discussion.