Last post on Dec 30, 2011 at 10:54 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Toyota ECHO, Chevrolet Aveo, Kia Rio, Nissan Sentra, Honda Fit, Hyundai Accent, Toyota Yaris, Kia Spectra, Suzuki Forenza, Sedan
Jun 09, 2002 (9:06 pm)
Man, you are a hoot. Sure your initial comments still stand in regards to my unclarified post, but don't stand up to the reality of my clarified position.
And Consumer Reports cannot state the predicted reliability of the Accent and Rio given that not enough owners have turned in surveys.
Do you honestly think that the Rio and the Accent would have knocked the Echo out of the top spot if enough responses were received? No one really knows, but I think it would be doubtful.
And you can bring in all the what ifs you want, but face facts and deal with the reality of the situation. In small cars, the Toyota Echo ranked first in predicted reliability in Consumer Reports New Car Buying Guide 2002 and the Hyundai Elantra ranked next to last.
Jun 10, 2002 (9:53 am)
Good eye you got there! I noticed that about the Lancer too. The model they tested does indeed lack a rear antiroll bar (the OZ and LS models add the rear bar), so it was their stats sheet that was wrong.
Jun 10, 2002 (10:12 am)
Always pulling that predicted reliability card as the Echo's only defense are we? Why not just admit the Accent was deemed a better overall driving car then the Echo and leave it at that? So what if the Echo has the "possibility" of being a more reliable car? That means nothing to me if its a poor value, is not fun to drive, has lower build quality, less comfort, and the funkiest styling this side of the Aztec. Reliability is a factor, but it shouldn't be the only pro in a car's favor. I expect a car to offer more then just reliability. Regardless, Hyundai is closing fast in reliability so I no longer feel that Toyota has a huge gain in that area either. Take away the Echo's "predicted reliability" trump card, and what does it have left? Fuel economy and thats pretty much it. I would take the better driving, more comfortable, higher value, longer warranty, higher quality car any day over the one that "may" have better reliability. And it appears more and more people are beginning to think like me. Witness 2001's sales figures as an example.
P.S. Did the other M/T Echo have ABS? The Echo tested by Car and Driver had good brakes but it had ABS. Apparently, without ABS, the Echo doesn't stop too good. That's a good example of how ABS contributes to better stopping distances even on dry pavement, contrary to what most people think.
Jun 10, 2002 (11:13 am)
My experience is that the Echo is very comfortable, very fun to drive and pretty much my opinion runs counter to what the naysayers have said.
I have no idea on the ABS. I do know that Consumer Reports also tested a manual Echo and it stopped in a decent distance. Again, I don't know if it was ABS equipped or not. I also know that I had to do a panic stop at a speed much greater than sixty miles per hour and it did not feel like it took a long distance.
I guess we can sum up your position that you would rather own a car you are more likely NOT to be driving because it is in the shop than a car you are more likely to be driving and not in the shop?
And I will admit that the editors of Motor Trend found the Accent to be a better driving experience. That does not mean I agree with them.
Don't you think you should get Backy to admit that the owners of Echoes, evidently, reported [to Consumer Reports] a lot fewer problems than did owners of Elantras?
Jun 10, 2002 (11:19 am)
Here is something of a ranking of how I view opinions.
1) Opinions from large groups of owners.
2) Opinions of one or just a few owners.
3) Opinions of auto reviewers who keep a car a long time.
4) Opinions of auto reviewers who have a car on a short term basis.
Jun 10, 2002 (11:24 am)
"I would take the better driving, more comfortable, higher value, longer warranty, higher quality car any day over the one that "may" have better reliability."
This is where you tell me that the Echo MAY have better reliability.
"Regardless, Hyundai is closing fast in reliability..."
This is where you tell me that the Accent MAY have good reliability. What's the difference?
If someone has been burned by a badly manufactured car (ahem, Cavalier) and wants a realiable car, Which one is more likely to be reliable? You tell me that Hundai is gaining on Toyota and that the Echo MAY be a reliable car. If you have lots of miles to drive and only car about reliability and don't want the hassle of an unreliable car which one is going to get choosen?
#1869 of 3871 BMW coming to the low end?
Jun 10, 2002 (11:39 am)
Has anyone checked out the latest issue of Automobile magazine? They have computer mock-ups of the BMW 1-Series. They took the open roadster concept car and gave it various roof and door layouts. The coupe really caught my eye. If the actual car looks like that and the price is $15,000 or less (as expected), my next car might be a Bimmer.
Jun 10, 2002 (11:41 am)
Lng, would you please show me where a large group of people have indicated that the Accent has better quality than the Echo?
Backy, you made a statement sometime back that implied the 2002 Accent ranked higher in the JD Powers survey than did the 2002 Echo. If you have a source, would you please post a link?
#1871 of 3871 Inconsistent or Incompetent?
Jun 10, 2002 (11:44 am)
I want to point out that I said the editors at Motor Trend were inconsistent. It was the other side that called their supporting source incompetent.
If someone told me, "Hey, the guy is incompetent in certain areas, but you can still trust him," I would not feel very reassured.
#1872 of 3871 Body and interior quality
Jun 10, 2002 (11:58 am)
Much has been made about Motor Trend saying the Accent was a better car than the Echo in terms of quality.
Well, what do actual owners say about the body and interior quality of the cars?
According to the JD Powers consumer site (http:///www.jdpower.com), the Accent scored three out of five stars in this area. This means its body and interior quality did not really stand out.
Hey, this must mean the Echo did really, really bad. Right? WRONG!
The Echo scored five out of five stars in this area. This means its body and interior quality is among the best.