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Low End Sedans (under $16k)

3871 messages,  Last post on Dec 30, 2011 at 10:54 AM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Toyota ECHO, Chevrolet Aveo, Kia Rio, Nissan Sentra, Honda Fit, Hyundai Accent, Toyota Yaris, Kia Spectra, Suzuki Forenza, Sedan

Messages Page 187 of 388

#1855 of 3871 Most reliable by majorthomecho

Jun 08, 2002 (9:33 pm)

Yes, let's listen to what editors of car publications (both print and online) say about cars and ignore any data generated by survey responses from actual owners.
 
After all, surveys from actual owners lead Consumer Reports to predict that the Toyota Echo is the most reliable, new car for 2002.
 
And it holds that distinction by a wide margin over the second place car.
 
The Hyundai Elantra was kept out of the basement only due to the presence of the Ford Focus.

#1856 of 3871 Incompetent? by backy

Jun 08, 2002 (9:48 pm)

Well, maybe not, maybe just really lousy proofreaders. Another example: they talk about the need for a rear anti-roll bar on the Lancer. Guess what the vehicle summary on p. 90 shows? Anti-roll bars front and rear on the Lancer.
 
Another thing I find curious. They note that "the Civic LX scored a near-miss on first place." When I tally their scores, I count six top scores and three ties for the top score for the Corolla, and two top scores plus two ties for top score for the Civic. That's a "near-miss"? In contrast, the third-place Focus has two top scores and one tie for top score. I guess they didn't consider that a "near-miss" for second place.
 
Majorthom, I am surprised you haven't mentioned yet that they complained about the ECHO's center-mounted speedometer, yet in the same magazine they reviewed the Mini Cooper S and somehow had no problem seeing its center-mounted speedometer (although they did gripe about all the information that is crammed into one place). But at least the Mini Cooper has a tach in front of the driver.

#1857 of 3871 Correction by backy

Jun 08, 2002 (10:08 pm)

CR's top-rated car for predicted reliability for 2002 models is the Infiniti G20, not the ECHO, per the April 2002 Auto Issue. The Infiniti I35 and QX4 (SUV, but some think of them as "cars") also appear to top the ECHO by a slim margin. There are several other cars that have ratings just a bit below that of the ECHO. So to say the ECHO is the top car and holds that position by a large margin over the second place car is inaccurate. Also, to say that the Focus kept the Elantra "out of the basement" is misleading. The Elantra's rating was a tad below average, far better than the Focus' and better than about 50 other vehicles in CR's report. In fact, the Elantra scored better in CR's reliability report than did the Malibu and Corvette, winners of 2002 J.D. Powers awards for Initial Quality. Just shows that initial quality is not the only measure of a car, I guess.
 
Maybe we should not be so harsh to MT's editors on their proofreading after all, as we can all make mistakes once in awhile.

#1858 of 3871 Backy by jimbeaumi

Jun 09, 2002 (7:30 am)

Thanks for the CR clarification. As a reader of CR as well as the car mags -- I like all sides -- I am sooooo tired of people misinterpreting. Not only was the Elantra just below average, the brand's ratings are climbing rapidly. Also, one should note that the 2001 Elantra is the first year of the new model, so the customary three-year average isn't applicable. Further, the reliability ratings are weighted to reflect cooling and powertrain problems, and there have been many people on here commenting about shift-flare. Even though that fix is covered under warranty, it still could qualify as a "problem" in a survey.
 
Backy is also correct about J.D.Powers. Personally, I take with a grain of salt the awards for "Most Appealing Blue Mid-Premium Near-Luxury Car with Cupholders Built on a Tuesday in Poughkeepsie" and the like.

#1859 of 3871 Backy by majorthomecho

Jun 09, 2002 (9:17 am)

I am talking about the category of cars that the Echo is in. I don't have a copy of the book, but I think the category was small cars.
 
Given my clarification, do you want to rethink your post?

#1860 of 3871 major by jimbeaumi

Jun 09, 2002 (9:43 am)

Indeed, the Echo is the highest rated in the "small cars" category for predicted reliability.

#1861 of 3871 Major by backy

Jun 09, 2002 (12:16 pm)

No thanks, I don't feel the need to rethink my post. It is correct as stated, in response to your earlier post about ECHO being the top 2002 car in CR's reliability ratings. The ECHO's showing in CR's list for Small Cars is impressive, but unfortunately it doesn't tell us anything about how the ECHO compares to the Accent and Rio, since CR hasn't published reliability data on those cars. The list also does not include cars like the Corolla and Impreza, which are known for their reliability.

#1862 of 3871 Backy by jimbeaumi

Jun 09, 2002 (12:29 pm)

I checked the Auto Issue, and I was surprised that those cars were not included. The reason they aren't on the list is because they have been redesigned very recently. I look forward to next year's issue to see if the Elantra (my car) has improved its rating. The folks in the Elantra thread are very pleased with their cars, as am I.

#1863 of 3871 Backy by majorthomecho

Jun 09, 2002 (9:06 pm)

Man, you are a hoot. Sure your initial comments still stand in regards to my unclarified post, but don't stand up to the reality of my clarified position.
 
And Consumer Reports cannot state the predicted reliability of the Accent and Rio given that not enough owners have turned in surveys.
 
Do you honestly think that the Rio and the Accent would have knocked the Echo out of the top spot if enough responses were received? No one really knows, but I think it would be doubtful.
 
And you can bring in all the what ifs you want, but face facts and deal with the reality of the situation. In small cars, the Toyota Echo ranked first in predicted reliability in Consumer Reports New Car Buying Guide 2002 and the Hyundai Elantra ranked next to last.

#1864 of 3871 backy by lngtonge18

Jun 10, 2002 (9:53 am)

Good eye you got there! I noticed that about the Lancer too. The model they tested does indeed lack a rear antiroll bar (the OZ and LS models add the rear bar), so it was their stats sheet that was wrong.

Messages Page 187 of 388

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