Last post on Dec 30, 2011 at 9:54 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Toyota ECHO, Chevrolet Aveo, Kia Rio, Nissan Sentra, Honda Fit, Hyundai Accent, Toyota Yaris, Kia Spectra, Suzuki Forenza, Sedan
#1789 of 3871 jimbeaumi and Freddy K
May 06, 2002 (1:39 pm)
Who says Koreans are catching the Japanese? I see tremendous improvement in Korean cars, but even more in Japanese cars. Actually, my vote for most improved in recent years would go to Volkswagen, but that's another issue.
I see cars like the new Corolla and Lancer on the low end, Camry and Altima (ugly interior, but oh sooooo fast) in the middle and just can't imagine Hyundai or Kia catching up anytime soon. The new Sonata is a nice car (rented one in Korea last summer), but it still doesn't meet the standards of the outgoing generation of Japanese midsize cars like my Galant or the old 2001 Camry. The current Accord is light-years beyond the Kia Optima and Hyundai Sonata, and a new one is due out in a few months that will make the old one look dated.
The Elantra is much better than any previous Elantra, but the 96-2000 Civic, and even the 93-97 Corolla are nicer, more solid cars, while the new Corolla has moved the class up another notch.
Even down another notch where the Accent and Echo live, the Korean entries, while much nicer than their predecessors, aren't up to the quality and engineering standards of the Echo.
What isn't mentioned here is that my comparisons are by size class, rather than price class. The Korean brands continue to compete by pricing their cars as though they were one bracket lower. The Sonata isn't as nice as the Camry, but is compelling agains the Corolla. The Elantra can't match the Corolla, but is compelling against the Echo, while the Accent undercuts the Echo by a few grand, where Toyota lakcs an entry.
Koreans give you more for your dollar in terms of quantity, but at a lower quality level. What never fails however, is that you tend to get what you pay for.
#1791 of 3871 Re Joint Venture
May 06, 2002 (7:28 pm)
Now that's interesting! Another interesting part of the announcement--and a bit surprising to me, given that DaimlerChrysler and Mitsubishi are no slouches in engine design:
"... Hyundai will lead the development and engineering... ".
So we have this German/American car company and this Japanese car company in a joint venture with a Korean company, and the Korean company is taking the lead in development and engineering?? Obviously the initial quality of these engines will be the worst in the industry.
#1792 of 3871 Looks to me like GM and DC are getting ready to go
May 07, 2002 (7:52 am)
head to head on the Korean pennisula.It will be interesting to see if Mercedes will actually be up front with the Koreans.No matter though,it certainly looks like the Korean economy will benifit from these ventures.Lets hope that DC and GM both treat their Korean partners better then what happened with Chrysler.
May 07, 2002 (8:58 am)
If someone calls my car ugly or something that is an expression of their opinion, I let it slide. But if they claim, like you, that $12,000 will only get you a stripped Echo, then I respond. Or if a poster makes the claim that another car is much rommier than my Echo and the measurements don't show that to be the case, I respond.
And Zig, post #767 in the Hyundai is the best car company ....thread in News And Views sure didn't sound like an admission of being wrong. You basically said that you meant that for $12,000 you weren't getting as much for the money as an Elantra.
During this exchange, you also called the resale values of the Echo horrid and I pointed out that if the resale values on the Echo were horrid, the resale values of the Accent were even worse. You brought up the fact that we were talking about the Elantra and the Echo. Well, you know what? The resale values on the Elantra GLS will be 48% after two years and 50% on the Elantra GT after two years. This is less than the resale value on an Echo, either two door or four door.
The point is if you think the resale value on the Echo is horrid, you MUST agree that the resale value on the Accent AND the Elantras are horrid to.
May 07, 2002 (10:06 am)
RE korean catching up,
Korean cars haven't ventured into more expensive markets, so it's hard to say if they can compete with higher end Japanese cars. Looking at the current Tiburon as a prime example, they are slowly raising the price, and quality, of their cars to bring it closer to Japanese competitors. They must do this gradually, however, because nobody is going to pay much for a Hyundai... yet. I'm not saying they have caught up to Japanese, but I am saying that they will... and much sooner then American cars would, if they ever do.
#1795 of 3871 lleroi...home equity lines
May 07, 2002 (11:23 am)
I guess if you look around, good deals are out there. I currently have a home equity line of credit through my credit union that's 4.00% for the first 6 months and then jumps to the prime rate after that for the life of the loan. I'm not sure, but I think prime right now is 4.75% (at least that's what my CU quoted, but I don't know if that's out of date by now).
I've got 0.9 financing on my Intrepid right now, and at the time I bought it I didn't have enough equity in my home to finance it that way. Still, if you have the equity and don't mind mortgaging the house back up, it may be a good way to go.
May 07, 2002 (4:46 pm)
They (Korean cars) are improving, but they are doing so at the same pace as the Japanese, or even slower. The mark they must surpass is constantly being raised, and with that in mind, it will be a very long time before the reach it.
We used to say the same thing about the Japanese with regards to the Germans. The first Acuras were nowhere near Mercedes levels, and as Acuras and Lexuses (Lexi?) have improved immensely with each generation, so too have the BMW and Mercedes. The end result is that parity is a long and slow process, which Lexus getting close to, but hasn't yet, after 13 years, reached. Oh, don't talk about how new Lexus is, as Lexus is just Toyota, and Toyota has been in the American market about as long as BMW.
The Koreans may someday catch up, but not in the life of my new car's payment book they won't.
May 07, 2002 (5:04 pm)
you really need to read before you speak . i said they were BOTH bad , your the one that said echo resale was exceptable (post#761)and accent was horrid in another, and with the #'s u posted in the forums it was 54% for a 2door if i am correct and the accent was 48% , well they are both horrid don't you think ?? gimme a break man and just get a clue .
""And Zig, post #767 in the Hyundai is the best car company ....thread in News And Views sure didn't sound like an admission of being wrong. You basically said that you meant that for $12,000 you weren't getting as much for the money as an Elantra.""
sure take post 767 and forget about the otherposts after where i do say it .
dude i will end it here because you are a person that can't just say "hey i was wrong and shouldn't have said this or that "
its not worth it because you have tunnel vision and nothing can change that ,
May 07, 2002 (8:26 pm)
To clarify, I got mine through my credit union, and with automatic deduction from my checking account, I got a variable rate at .25% below prime.
The rate is 4.50%, not 4.25%. Got excited, sorry.