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Low End Sedans (under $16k)

3871 messages,  Last post on Dec 30, 2011 at 10:54 AM

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What is this discussion about? Toyota ECHO, Chevrolet Aveo, Kia Rio, Nissan Sentra, Honda Fit, Hyundai Accent, Toyota Yaris, Kia Spectra, Suzuki Forenza, Sedan

Messages Page 175 of 388

#1732 of 3871 Suzuk Aerio Pt 7 (does size matter?) by majorthomecho

Apr 30, 2002 (10:49 am)

In post #60 of the Suzuki: Should they stay? thread, Lng claims that "The car [Echo] is also not near as roomy as the Aerio...." Let's examine that shall we. The following numbers come from the 2002 Suzuki Aerio and 2002 Toyota Echo brochures. Aerio numbers first and Echo numbers second.
 
Wheelbase (in) 97.6/93.3
Length (in) 171.3/163.2
Width (in) 66.5(Aerio S) 67.7 (Aerio GS)/65.4
Height (in) 60.8/59.4
 
Now the advantage in exterior dimensions for the Aerio does translate to a larger interior volume and perhaps this is what Lng meant by the Echo not being "near as roomy as the Aerio."
 
Interior volume (cu ft) 104.7/87.4
 
But does that distinct advantage in interior volume translate to more head or leg room? Those are the only two areas that I can compare since those are the only two areas that the Aerio brochures mentions while the Echo talks about those areas plus shoulder room and hip room.
 
Headrom f/r (in) 40.6 & 37.6/39.9 & 37.6
Legroom f/r (in) 41.4 & 36.0/41.1 & 35.2
 
If head and leg room were what Lng was referring to, I don't see that the Aerio is that much [more] roomy than the Echo.
 
In that same sentence, Lng goes on to repeat his erroneous statement that the Echo "doesn't offer power windows (a must have on my next car)." Keep that in mind for future reference.
 
Lng, aren't you glad that you don't have to scratch the Echo off your list due to lack of power windows? ; )

#1733 of 3871 Suzuki Aerio Pt 8 (Aerio v. Corolla) by majorthomecho

Apr 30, 2002 (11:15 am)

In post #60, Lng takes issue with my bringing up the Corolla CE. He says, "You can buy the Corolla CE with auto for the price of a GS manual?? Well, I sure hope so, since the CE doesn't have any power amenities, no CD player, no fog lamps, no alloy wheels, no spoiler, no ground effects (all of which would bring the price right up to 17k, 3k north of the Aerio)."
 
Please note how muddy Lng makes the water at this point. The fact is that the CE DOES come with a CD player STANDARD. Also, for around the price of a Aerio GS with manual, I can get a Corolla CE with power locks and cruise control. So much for not getting power something. Plus, the CE is not even available with fog lamps, spoiler or ground effects package. That would be the Corolla S. And it is possible to equip a Corolla S to where it costs 3k more than an Aerio, but that would be the Aerio S which does not have fog lamps, a spoiler, or alloy wheels.

#1734 of 3871 Suzuki Aerio Pt 9 (Another name for Hyundai?) by majorthomecho

Apr 30, 2002 (11:21 am)

In post #60 of the Suzuki: Should they stay? thread, Lngtonge18 asks, "Is it possible that some just don't trust the Suzuki name as if it is a Korean car."
 
The answer for me is no. I did not think of the Suzuki in the same light as Korean cars before I examined where Suzuki's level of initial quality is. The fact is that Suzuki is barely better than Kia and Hyundai is better than Suzuki.
 
I don't really judge a car company based on where it is from. I look at each car company individually. Right now, it is just easier (and accurate) to say that, overall, Korean cars are not the equal of Japanese, American, or European cars.

#1735 of 3871 Suzuk Aerio Pt 10 by majorthomecho

Apr 30, 2002 (11:40 am)

In post #60 of the Suzuki: Should they stay? thread, Lngtonge18 calls anyone who spends "that much money on an Echo" stupid. At this point, I am not sure if "that much" refers to the cost of an Aerio GS with manual (which would be $15k) or a Corolla S (which he says would be $17k).
 
At that point, I checked Lng's profile and I saw that he owns a Lancer OZ which led me to say that he shouldn't throw stones. I will explain why in a little while.
 
Lng's response to my bringing up the Lancer and, previously, his Accent led Lng to ask in post #63, "Now, wait a second. How did my 2 cars get pulled into this discussion?"
 
Well, Lng, its like this, if my Echo is fair game (and I know I brought the Echo up first) then your choice of wheels should be fair game too. And you mentioned the Accent and Lancer previously.
 
Remember how I pointed out to Lng that the Accent's wheels are smaller than the wheels on my Echo. Well, his response was, "Yes, I criticized the wheel size of the Echo (but it more had to do with the overall styling of the car). Got news for you, Lng, the Aerio S has the same styling and the same 14" wheels.
 
Lng goes on to say, "By the way, your Echo's 14" tires have the same width as my 13" tires...so there really isn't much of a difference."
 
But the thin tires on those 14" wheels of the Echo serves a purpose, that of saving on fuel. Compare the 34/41 fuel numbers of the Echo in manual with the 26/33 fuel numbers of the Aerio or the 28/36 fuel numbers of the Accent with the 1.5L engine. Looks like the 13" wheels on the Accent are just there to hold down the price.

#1736 of 3871 ha ha ha by newcar31

Apr 30, 2002 (11:51 am)

I have 16 inch wheels.

#1737 of 3871 A million Aerio posts... by browntrout

Apr 30, 2002 (11:55 am)

...in a row is quite tedious and boring. Can we just summarize things a little here?

#1738 of 3871 Suzuk Aerio Pt 11 (Echo v. Lancer) by majorthomecho

Apr 30, 2002 (12:07 pm)

In post #63 of the Suzuki: Should they stay? thread, Lngtonge18 took great umbrage at my having said that I thought he should not criticize anyone who buys an Echo given his buying a Lancer OZ.
 
Lng says, "The Lancer was built to play in the 14k to 17k class and it feels, looks, and performs like a car in that price range should......I'd gladly take the good low end torque and effortless acceleration of the Lancer and the Aerio over the high winding torqueless Echo."
 
Come again? Shall we let some reality in here? I don't know the torque curve of the Aerio, the Lancer or the Echo and I don't know the amount of peak torque for the Aerio although I do know that it makes it at 3,000 rpm. The Echo makes its peak torque of 105 lb-ft at 4,000 rpm while the Lancer makes its peak torque of 130 lb-ft at 4,250 rpm or 250 rpm higher than the Echo.
 
How should a car in the 14k to 17k perform? Evidently Lng thinks cars in this class should be slower than the Echo or at least the Lancer should.
 
Motor Trend says the 2000 Echo sedan will do 0 to 60 in 8.4 seconds and the quarter mile in 16.50 seconds while the 2002 Lancer OZ edition will do 0 to 60 in 8.8 seconds and the quarter mile in 16.60 seconds. I had to use the numbers for the 2000 Echo since Motor Trend was the only source that tested both vehicles.
 
My problem with anyone buying an OZ is that it is basically a Lancer ES with some visual touches thrown in. The Lancer OZ has an MSRP of $16,142 while the Lancer ES has an MSRP of $14,456. Tell me Lng, did that almost $1,700 difference get you a bigger engine?

#1739 of 3871 Brown, I feel your pain by majorthomecho

Apr 30, 2002 (12:08 pm)

I am truly sorry, but when I tried to do one long post covering everything, Edmunds protested at the time it took and all the work I did went down the drain.

#1740 of 3871 Suzuki Aerio Pt 12 (the last, hopefully) by majorthomecho

Apr 30, 2002 (12:24 pm)

In post #63 of the Suzuki: Should they stay thread, Lngtonge18 states, "Now, as for the Aerio vs Corolla Comparison, maybe you guys just don't get what I was trying to point out. Is the Corolla a better and more refined car? Yes, is it worth 2k more [wait a minute, what happened to your claim that it would cost 3k more for the same equipment?] for the exact same equipment, I think not. You guys are trying to compare cars that don't have the same equipment. The Aerio is geared more towards the sporty econo car in GS trim. If you want to properly compare prices, you need to equip competing cars the same way. [okay, how do we put a dollar cost on equipping the Aerio with the same fuel economy as the Corolla or how much would it cost to get the Aerio with the same quality that Toyota builds the Corolla?]. Now, let's see here: the Corolla S starts at 15k, same price as the Aerio GS. Add cruise, alloy wheels, spoiler, power windows and keyless entry, power mirrors, extra freight charges to the SE, and a CD/cassette combo and the price skyrockets to $17117, compare to the Aerio with the same equipment. Some may like not like the sportier look and that's fine, but don't compare prices of the sport model with the non sport model. As for me, that's what I like so that's what I would be comparing."
 
Well, I DON'T like the look of the Corolla S so that is why I compared the Corolla CE to the Aerio GS. Since you think it is all right to compare cars the way you want to, you must agree that it is fair to compare cars the way I want to.
 
And you mention getting a CD/Cassette combo for the Corolla S. Why? You say you want to compare cars with the same equipment and the Aerio GS does NOT come with a CD/Cassette combo. If you were upgrading to that combo on the Corolla to get the six speakers, save yourself $100 and get the deluxe CD which comes with six speakers. Also the "six" speakers on the Aerio GS are actually four speakers and two tweeters.
 
And how much does it cost to get chrome interior trim on the Aerio GS that comes standard with the Corolla S?
 
My point is that the Corolla costs more than the Aerio because of more than the options.
 
Any response, Lng?

#1741 of 3871 majorthomecho by lngtonge18

Apr 30, 2002 (4:32 pm)

You still are continuing to compare apples to oranges. I'm sorry, I don't see where and why you are trying to compare the Echo to the Aerio. The 2 cars are simply in different classes and compete at different price points. After all our discussion over the Aerio, I went down to see it for myself and see how off I was (an SX model). I actually like the car even more now that I have seen it in person. The interior plastics weren't near as cheap looking as I expected and the interior definitely looked higher quality then the Accent, Rio, or Echo (none of these cars have what I would call high quality interiors). There simply is no comparison there. The interior competes quality and looks wise with the Elantra, Protege, and Sentra. The plastics in the Civic, Lancer, and Corolla are of higher quality, as it should be since they cost more. I found the seats to be very comfortable in the Aerio and I liked the fabric. I even ended up liking the digital gauges more then I thought I would. The car is amazingly spacious and is much roomier feeling then the Echo; absolutely NO comparison there. You can quote measurements all you want, but I sat in the rear seat of an Echo and it feels very narrow and cramped in there, unlike the Aerio, which feels very open, wide, and airy. You feel like you are sitting at a dining room table in the Aerio. Foot space under the front seats is amazing. Front seat room was also amazingly spacious, feeling as if you were in a minivan. The engine was quiet at idle and was very smooth and relatively quiet as you revved it. Cargo space was good and all the little storage nooks was neat. The only disappointments I saw in the car was the rough fabric used on the door panels (at least it has fabric and not just hard plastic) and the doors sounded a little hollow when slammed. Otherwise, I found a lot to like. It's definitely on my list for my next car.

Messages Page 175 of 388

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