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Hatchbacks Best Hot Hatch - SVT, Civic Si, GTI, RSX, Mini, Beetle...
894 messages, Last post on Nov 12, 2008 at 6:09 PM
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Are you saying that there's been no inflation since 1973? So that means I should be able to by a Snickers bar for 5 cents right? Gas would have to go up much higher than it is now to be back at 1973 values. That's a fact not my opinion. Honda's 240hp V6 gets 30mpg highway - same as the Civic Si's highway mileage with 80hp less. As I said before, if someone can afford a $40k SUV, the price of gas is of little concern. Sad but true. And gas prices are predicted to fall now that summer is almost over. The only way to get people out of SUVs is to heavily tax gasoline (as is done in Europe) up to about the $5/gal level. Why not run for office with that as an issue you support and see if you get elected. |
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I doubt too many people who buy large SUV can actually afford them. They are in what I call "payments world" They were sold this large SUV because the lease was $XXX/month, not because it was a $40K vehicle. I think when you define inflation you can not say that a Snickers bar cost $0.05 in 1973 and it costs $1.50 in 2003. In 1973 minimum hourly wage was somewhere in the $1.50 region. People who were making $30K a year were middle class, and houses in NYC area were in $30-40K region. Fast forward to 2003, minimum hourly wage is $5.75 or something, houses in NYC area are $400K and up. Yeah in the 60-early 70's a gallon of gas was $0.20. First of all, it was before the energy crisis, and secondly, it was not as pure as it it is these days. It may have been a simple distillate of crude oil, these days gasoline has tons of additives to make it burn cleaner, to clean the insides of the engine and not to hurt the catalytic converter. Speaking of which, before the EPA mandated catalytic converter, all of gasoline contained lead, to lubricate engine internals. But anyway, the only way to thwart people from buying large SUV's is through your local police department. SUV's are classified as trucks, they do not have to go for emissions like trucks, I think the local police department should ticket SUV drivers for: driving on Parkways, for driving in the left lane, for driving on streets that prohibit truck traffic, SUV's should obery the posted truck speed limits, SUV's should be charged truck rates for going over bridges and tunnels, and they have to stop at the weigh stations when they cross state lines. Local police ans state troopers should be enforcing the law!!!!! Petition your local sheriff, attorney general, ect. |
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| Cops, who themselves drive gas guzzler Crown Vics, will not stop the SUV craze, because there are no laws being broken. Unfortunately, the law doesn't say anywhere that a light truck (not an 18 wheeler) can't be driven in the left lane or go over a bridge. Bridges usually have a weight limitation not a SUV vs. passenger car restriction. Same goes for weigh stations. Nice try, but not the answer. Put a $3/gal surcharge on gas and watch the SUV owners start buying VW Golf diesels. There's no other way. In Europe there are very few large SUVs for this very reason. | |
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Good thing we live in America where we have the freedom to buy SUV's and Trucks. Also, Trucks make up almost half or more of the vehicles sold nowadays, so your "solution" to the SUV problem would not work. Each Police department would have to add hundreds of officers to make a dent on traffuc stops. I am guessing you do not have a family and therefore do not need an SUV to haul your "stuff". Also, I notice you live in the Bronx. That local is not ideal for large SUV's. |
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In Europe there are very few large SUVs for this very reason. Also because the urban areas all predate cars and don't all have streets or parking that can accomodate the leviathans. When I was stationed in Italy there was a guy who had brought over his prized full-size chevy truck. He barely drove it because most days he couldn't fit it down the street lined with little cars. |
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I don't know why SUVs are considered family vehicles now. Not that many familes really need to tow a bow or go off-road. The family vehicle used to be, and still is for some of us, the station wagon (goes nicely with along my MINI Cooper for fun, commuting and short trips). A station wagon often gives you the same or more passenger and cargo room with better gas mileage and you can get a Subaru or other AWD solution if you often drive in snow. Better rollover characteristics too so the only time they are less safe than an SUV is when they are hit from the side by other SUVs and most good wagons come with side curtain airbags now which help a lot in that situation. 95% of people who buy SUVs have no real need for them. They live in a free land where they are allowed to buy them and it is their free choice but they don't need them. We don't need not hatches either -- we could all drive unfun vehicles for less money so we are pots calling the kettle black for complaining about their gas mileage and cost but I think SUV vs. station wagon is more wasteful than hot hatch vs. basic commuter hatch. |
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| My inflation comment was just a smart ass remark, just like falling gas prices. : ) | |
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Europeans have just as much freedom as Americans. I said there are few big SUVs in Europe because they are costly to fuel. BUT, you can still drive whatever you like there - nobody is stopping you. If you want to drive a Hummer in Europe and pay $100 to fill the tank, you can! In fact, BP (British Petroleum) would probably love you for it. The gas tax revenue generated, would pay to undo the damage caused by the SUV in the first place. Tax on gas in Europe is about 85% of the cost of a gallon (sold in Liters). The basic cost of the fuel itself is about the same as in the US and is set by world oil prices. If Americans have so much freedom, why can't I go out and buy a military tank and drive it on the street? You could argue that Europeans have MORE freedom because their choice of vehicles is much larger than in the US. VW, for instance only sells in the US a small portion of what they make and sell in Europe. What about the Civic Type R, can't get one here, you can get one there though. |
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Just to kinda steer back on topic, there's a bunch of "hot hatches" that are available in Euro, but not here. Performance versions of VW's Polo, the SMART Roadster coupe, Ford's performance Focus (one step ABOVE the SVT mind you...what is it, the Cosworth or something?) are the ones that pop off the top of my head. The VW Polo would be an interesting vehicle here in performance form (I think they make a GTI version in Europe, but I don't know off the top of my head). And for all I know (Haven't checked) GM might have a "hot hatch" of some sort over there too. |
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| That tank thing is the most absurd thing I've ever read. Come on now, we both now that without regulation bumpers and airbags, you're never going to get a tank registered. A Bradley maybe, but a tank? | |
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