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#677 of 5133 CR and reliability - wrong facts stated
Oct 25, 2003 (1:18 am)
BigOrange30, your information is totally wrong. I am sitting here right now looking at the chart online on the CR web site. I pulled up their newest page, showing the 2003 Grand Cherokee. The newest chart, for the 2002 Grand Cherokee, shows 100% red dots or red 1/2 dots!! Every single category!! For 2001, 12 out of 14 categories are red, one is average, and the single "black" dot is for brakes. The year 2000 has 7 reds and only ONE black, again for brakes, a problem that was resolved in 2002.
Take away the now-solved brake problem and you have NO BLACK DOTS for the last THREE YEARS LISTED. ZERO.
Out of the 45 possibilities for 2000, 2001 and 2002 there are ONLY TWO BLACK DOTS (Brakes). There are seven dots for "average" and THIRTY SIX RED DOTS.
THIRTY SIX RED DOTS out of 45. TWO BLACK DOTS out of 45. And that makes the GC a piece of unreliable garbage? I don't understand the purpose or intent of the continuous posting of how "poor" the Grand Cherokee is "rated", by ONE magazine, for reliability. This forum is for helping people solve problems. What good does it do to add negative reliability rating posts to discussions amoung those of owners asking for help solving issues? No mention is ever made of the GC's high amount of "red dots", their highest rating for the past three model years. No, instead I read about 10-year old Jeeps having a bunch of black dots!
What isn't ever stated is that the figures in CR represent only a SIX PERCENT response. That's right, the statistical response rate is estimated at a mere 6% of the population!
John Greenstreet: "the CR survey may over/understate the reliability of certain cars because the people that own them are not homogeneous. ... many people will have a subconscious need to justify their purchase of a Japanese auto over of a domestic one, and they could do this by believing superior reliability is the reason they bought it. Because of cognitive dissonance, they would tend to overlook or downplay anything that would attack this mind-set. We do see many people who vehemently defend Japan's cars' reliability and smear that of others." (hmm, I know someone like that...)
#678 of 5133 You quoted about the same figures I did, tloke
Oct 25, 2003 (1:53 am)
So how is it that I was totally wrong. You were reading it right there. I agree with most of what you said.
However, as you stated, there are 14 ratings per year. So, how did you get a possible 45 out of 3 years? There are 42 possible in 3 years. 33 of those were red for the JGC. But you failed to distinguish a difference between a red donut and a half red circle as I pointed out. You also called the hollow black circle "average" as if that's what most vehicles rate. That is not quite accurate. Only 18 of the 42 possible rated with the best rating. Conversely, the leader in the SUV market over the same time period got 36 out of 42 red donuts (the best rating they have). The other 6 were half red circles with no black or hollow black at all.
What you see as a good rating, I and CR as well as most consumers see as a poor rating for an SUV.
Again, 34th on a list of 35 SUVs.
#679 of 5133 You quoted about the same figures I did, tloke by bigorange30
Oct 25, 2003 (2:25 am)
Yes, you are correct in that there should have been 42 possibilities and not 45. That's 33 out of 45.
That means that on average about 2-5% or less of the owners of Grand Cherokee are reporting problems. THAT makes the GC a "piece of garbage"? Are you kidding? And key components like the engine, transmission and electrical are all in the 2% or less category!!
Another flaw in the CR ratings is that the SEVERITY of different problems is not figured into the statistics. This really skews the results as one has no way of knowing if problems were serious or not.
But I would still like to know why it is necessary to post skewed statistics against the GC in this forum? I thought that we were supposed to be helping people that are reporting problems, not telling them that their vehicles are unreliable according to what one magazine says.
So, according to the statistics, NINETY-FIVE or less out of ONE HUNDRED owners will NOT have problems with their Grand Cherokees. I'll take those chances any day, I love my Grand Cherokee.
#680 of 5133 Did you even read the question that ajeepting posted?
Oct 25, 2003 (2:47 am)
When I am spending $30K on transportation that my family and I will use for 10-15 years, I look for the best reliability I can get within the vehicles I like the looks and utility of.
Remember now that there are 14 categories and that and that each one has 2-5% people reporting problems. If each of those problems were from a different person, then they are additive. Therefore, in the case of MY 2000, using the max in each category, you would have 98% of people reporting problems. In contrast, you would have only 37% of owners reporting problems for the RX for the same MY.
#681 of 5133 If you use the other end of the statistical ranges
Oct 25, 2003 (1:45 pm)
and assume that every problem is in a different vehicle, then the JGC would have 55% of them showing problems and the market leader would have 6% in the same 2000 MY.
Realistically, its impossible to tell how many multiple problem vehicles were in these reports. I also will agree taking into account the severity of problems would be a good thing. It is, however, the best review of reliatbilty available. Until you can identify a better reviewer or start your own review, then you have to respect the only information that is available.
#682 of 5133 2004 Grand Cherokee SE 6 cyl PROBS!!!!!
Oct 27, 2003 (7:26 pm)
I have a 04 Grand Cherokee SE 2wd 6 cyl less than 5 mos old w/5k highway
miles. Last week I backed out of my driveway and started down the street. I
noticed it had a loss of power and didnt seem to upshift until I got up to
around 45mph. It had started out in third gear! I went maybe half a mile and
turned around and came back home. I turned it off and restarted when I did
the check engine light came on however this time when I started back down
the road it acted normally. I drove to the dealer and they got it in and
found that the "pressure transducer" was the culprit and they replaced it.
Every since then I have noticed now when it is in drive and I'm sitting at a
stoplight etc. there is a fair amount of loud engine resonance now. I didn't
notice it before the problem and only after they replaced that part in the
transmission. At idle it is fairly quiet just when it is in drive with my
foot on the brake I notice this. I have noticed now that the idle is now
dipping sometimes to the point where I think it may cut off but it only does
this for a sec or so then comes back to normal and usually only right after
a highway ride as Im sitting at a light.
Has anyone experienced any of this and if so how was it corrected? Most
importantly, does this sound like I have a lemon having problems already?
This may sound crazy but would using a Purolator Pure One Micron Oil Filter
have ANYTHING to do with causing these problems? I changed the oil for the
first time at 3k and used this type filter. ALL your replys would be
Oct 28, 2003 (8:54 am)
I want to start off and say that I love my Jeep. Best vehicle that I have ever owned.
But lately the dealers have been enjoying more then me. I have a 2000 Jeep Grand
Cherokee V8 4X4 with all the bells and whistles. Now it only has 47000 miles on it. I think
that is pretty good. But in the last 2 1/2 years I have had nothing but problems. Here is a
list. Brakes, 3 Fuel Pumps, 2 Window modulater/motors, 2 Seat replacements, Ignition/Steering
cylinder replacement(that extended warranty does not cover), a starter. To me all this is
inexcusable. Now I am looking for a new vehicle before my extended warrenty runs out. Sorry
I just had to vent, I wish the quality/reliablity of the vehicle was a lot better. Until then
I will not buy another Jeep/Chrysler product.
#684 of 5133 noise around the 4 HI 4 LO shifter
Oct 28, 2003 (11:35 pm)
I took the Jeep to the dealer and they found the noise problem. There is a cable that runs near the drivecase that was loose. It would flex and hit the drive shaft during braking and cause the noise. An easy fix, no charge.
I went ahead and spent about $1300 on the following since we purchased the GC used with 50k miles.
and all of the scheduled maintenance required for 50k.
they said it looked good, no real issues. Hopefully, it will be a good vehicle for many years and now that all of the maintenance is caught up, I can keep it that way. Its a 2001 Grand Cherokee Limited 4wd, loaded with all the options and runs really strong. We'll see how it holds up. There are tons of these on the road and seems to be very popular.
#685 of 5133 '95 Jeep GCL - Input Request
Oct 30, 2003 (2:06 pm)
I've owned a '95 GCL 5.2 V-8 All-time 4WD for a little over 2 years now. When purchased it had 50K miles and now is at 80K after driving it everywhere. I've only had a few problems and have been very satisfied w/ the Jeeps overall performance.
1) leak of engine coolant. This problem plagued me for awhile. I originally noticed the fluid was getting low about once a mo. Once it developed further I found there was a leak at the pump. When stopped after the engine was run hard, it would literally dump about 1/4 of the fluid on the ground. Since fixing the problems has not re-occured.
2) the rear windshield wiper stopped working and jammed in place on the other side of the window at about 70K miles.
3) the catalytic converter is about shot. I can hear the contents rattle sometimes when running.
4) the front differential will need to be replaced soon.
Overall, I've been happy with the performance of the Jeep. Its been reliable and has pulled people from ditches during snowstorms more than once. The problems I've had are part of owning an older model car/ regular maintenance and I took those in stride as they are part of owning an older vehicle.
Questions: 1) Can the catalytic converter be "cleaned out", basically I'm thinking about coring it and putting it back on, or will this make a check engine light come on b/c of the loss of back-pressure?
2) Has anyone experienced difficulty in tight slow turns, like when turning sharply into a parking space? It almost feel like I'm fighting the drive. The front differential does need to be replaced. Just wondering if this is common.
Overall thumbs up on the '95 and am looking forward to keeping it for years to come.
#686 of 5133 re: catalytic converter
Oct 30, 2003 (3:52 pm)
...basically I'm thinking about coring it and putting it back on...
I think that would be a violation of federal law. Any lawyers here?