Last post on Oct 31, 2011 at 2:14 PM
You are in the Ford Explorer
What is this discussion about?
Ford Explorer, Mercury Mountaineer, SUV
#3173 of 3348 Re: 6R60 Trans [electricdesign]
Mar 27, 2006 (6:24 am)
Thank you, I checked out the link this morning, and found it interesting. It looks like they want you to buy a book for information on each transmission. I may do that for at least one transmission I have currently ((4R70W) for good reading) to feed my growing curiosity about how automatic transmissions work. If you type in "project frankentranny" in a google search, anyone can see a rebuild of a 4R55E using 5R55E parts. I found it very interesting, because it helped me understand better how the automatic transmission works and the strengths and faults with the 4R/5R55E transmissions. There are numerous aftermarket modifications you can make to it with varying degrees of involvement and monetary commitment. If I remember correctly from the diary of the rebuild, the actual drums, clutches, and other rotating mass were well designed save for one minor area in the overdrive drum. The valve body is where the modifications were implemented. Some holes drilled larger in the valve body separator plate for quicker clutch activation, replacement of the EPC solenoid, among a few other things. I know I am throwing out all kinds of terms and words, with my point being that for those interested in how these hydraulic masterpieces work, the transmission rebuild diary was very enlightening.
Does anyone here know if the 6R60 is the transmission co-developed with GM? If GM is using it, I wonder if they are sealing it up in their applications? Is the 6R60 based on the 5R55* at all?
After I found out here yesterday that the 6R60 is sealed, I was trying to think in my head of why an automotive company would want to do that. First thought makes me think they want the transmission to fail. If its actual life is 150,000 miles, then Ford should warranty it for that period. I know, unrealistic. I was able to dig up a 2006 service suggestion guide for 2006 Ford vehicles yesterday. At 150,000 miles, Ford suggests changing the transmission fluid for the first time. Maybe that means that the fluid itself has a life of 150,000 miles. Not sure if I feel any better about that. I hope that the 6R's come with a giant transmission oil cooler to help slow the inevitable break down of the fluid from heat.
More: I know I'm rambling, sorry folks I'm almost done.
It's been a while since we've owned a Honda at our house (2001), but I don't recall us ever having to pay as close of attention to the maintenance on those as our Fords. When I say that, I am not talking about the oil and filter. That was religiously changed at 3,000-7,500mile intervals per the owners manual. With our Fords, I feel like I can't miss a beat. If I am right on top of maintenance, then Fords will treat you well. With that said, how many people do I know (lets say a few) that own foreign vehicles that barely do maintenance. Maybe that is where Ford's thinking is. Since many people may not know or remember to do maintenance, they will try an eliminate it as much as possible. Problem is, I don't think Ford has this down to a science yet. To date, I still haven't seen a 5R55W-S have more than 100,000 miles yet. I know it is rare that many people could do that in 4 1/2 years, but the lack of evidence surrounding the longevity of these transmissions isn't confidence inspiring.
Finally, are the days of Explorer's making it to 250-300K gone? Time will tell I suppose.
Mar 27, 2006 (8:45 am)
This is definately NOT the Co-developed with GM 6 speed which will make its debute in the Ford Edge this fall.
That tranny is FWD platform only.
It is my understanding that the 6R60 is a ZF unit from Europe.
#3175 of 3348 Re: 6R60 [mschmal]
Mar 27, 2006 (12:14 pm)
Thanks again for input!
I did some more looking around on the internet and came across Ford's media release for their new 6-speed automatics.
This is what I found:
New 6F Front wheel drive, six-speed automatic co-developed with GM,rated for up to 300HP
6R Ford developed and built in Livonia, Mich. Only application is in the '06 Explorer and Mountaineer so far.
Aisin front wheel drive, six-speed automatic:
Used in Five-Hundred, Montego, Milan, Fusion, and Zephyr.
ZF 6-speed RWD
Used only in the Navigator
Since Ford developed and is building the 6R, I wonder if it has links to the 5R's? Looks like I will have to buy one of those books to find out. Not that it matters. The 6R may be a 5R with all of the bugs worked out that plagued the 5R55W-S.
#3176 of 3348 Nav. radio in Explorer
Mar 27, 2006 (6:51 pm)
I am thinking about ordering a Explorer with the navigation radio. Any problems with these units? Any order delays with the nav. radio?
#3177 of 3348 Re: 6R60 Trans [jrc346]
Mar 27, 2006 (8:45 pm)
Yes, I bleed Ford Blue, jrc..... Still like Ford design over anything else, but they have their issues from time to time.
And, you are correct, it was my 02 with the V-6 that the reflash cured the wierd shifing perfectly. That transmission turned out to be extraordinarily smooth.
My 04 had one of those with the bad fluid fill.
#3178 of 3348 Re: 6R60 Trans [nvbanker]
Mar 27, 2006 (11:39 pm)
"My 04 had one of those with the bad fluid fill."
It amazes me....100+ years of building cars, and the wrong fluid gets in to the tranny. Yea, I know it was a Ford "vendor issue" - but c'mon!
#3179 of 3348 Re: 6R60 Trans [nvbanker]
Mar 28, 2006 (4:59 am)
Yup, while I may look like a disgruntled customer, I actually bleed Ford blue as well. Ford's pretty lucky to have a few loyal people around where they can practically do no wrong, but I can't say for certain that if I had a continuous problems with a major component (i.e. Transmission), that I wouldn't think twice about buying one again. Like Chuck1 said, how are these mistakes made at this day and age. Quality checks are not a value-added activity to a company, but they are to the customer. I love Fords, but I feel like every time I purchase one I am taking a bit more of a gamble than if I bought a Honda, or Toyota. Oh well, it keeps things interesting.
I am still considering the Explorer for my next vehicle despite the transmission being sealed. I just like it too much, and the Expedition is too big for me anymore. However, has anyone with the sealed transmission paid for the fluid to be changed before the 150K mark? How much does it cost? Odd thing about the 6R, is even when you get the fluid changed, they tell you that you don't have to change the filter-strange. It's my hope that the fluid changes wont be excessively expensive so that I can do it at 50-60K intervals for my personal peace of mind.
I have some friends that bought an 06 Mountaineer back in December, and they love it so far.
#3180 of 3348 Re: 6R60 Trans [jrc346]
Mar 28, 2006 (2:53 pm)
If I buy another Mountaineer, Explorer, Navigator or Expedition - it would be because I still feel the design is the best. Only Nissan has come close with an IRS, useful folding 3rd row seat, etc. And you're no better off risk wise with the Nissan than with the Ford. Worse actually at the moment, as Nissan has had nightmares with their Titan & Armada. I will not, however, buy a Sequoia, even though they may be the best in reliability, because the 3rd row seat still has to be removed for cargo space, instead of folded into the floor.
Ford is with trucks and SUVs like Toyota is with cars - the best designs first. Anyway, that's how I feel.
#3181 of 3348 Re: electronic entry [nycmystery]
Mar 28, 2006 (9:32 pm)
It was in the owners manual of my 1999.
#3182 of 3348 Re: 6R60 Trans [jrc346]
Mar 29, 2006 (10:48 am)
ATF changed was included in the 30k/60k/90k service. I paid $600 for the 60k service.
02 explorer xlt v8