Last post on Oct 31, 2011 at 2:14 PM
You are in the Ford Explorer
What is this discussion about?
Ford Explorer, Mercury Mountaineer, SUV
#3113 of 3348 Re: CR has that East Coast Bias. [mschmal]
Mar 04, 2006 (10:05 am)
Imagine that you've owned many cars including mostly American and some Asian...now imagine that the American car quality has been declining and Asian has been increasing (from an already high standard). Well, I don't have to imagine too hard, because that is what I'm going through right now. I have tried GM, Ford, and Toyota in the last 10 years, and after we sell our 2003 Explorer (for a new 2007 Toyota), we won't be coming back to American cars ever again--the quality and ownership experience just isn't there.
#3114 of 3348 Re: CR has that East Coast Bias. [moeharri]
Mar 04, 2006 (12:28 pm)
You're wrong about the quality degrading on american cars. Even the biased Consumer Union has said the quality between american and asian is not that far apart. If anything the Quality has increased greatly in the last 5 years. I own a Hyundai Sonata and a Mountaineer. Both are very well made cars. I will consider all makes when I'm looking for a car or SUV. I have no reservations whatsoever in buying a Ford or GM product. In fact I think Ford, GM, and Chrysler make the best looking cars and trucks. Sure the Japanese have an advantage of a little better reliability, but give me driving pleasure over a few extra minor problems over 5 years.
#3115 of 3348 Re: CR has that East Coast Bias. [mtnman1]
Mar 04, 2006 (2:47 pm)
I guess you've been lucky with your Mountaineer then, we've had our 03 Explorer in for about 30 days worth of work in only 2.5 years (we bought it brand new)--this is far and away the worst vehicle we've ever owned. I also hear every time I go in how they have many other vehicles with the same problems (alternator, cluster, ABS sensor, etc, etc, etc). Regardless, you can see the shape that GM and Ford are in, and it is not because of health costs; it is because they make low quality vehicles that no one wants (check the depreciation)--they just cannot compete anymore. When we trade in (or sell) our Explorer, we are going to get absolutely killed on depreciation (rightly so, who would want this lemon or any other Ford).
#3116 of 3348 Re: Latest Consumer Reports Ratings [mtnman1]
Mar 04, 2006 (4:23 pm)
Here's a test for your bias question. (And I don't subscribe to C/R, so I don't know the answer). How do they rate the Nissan Armada? If better than the Explorer, then they are suspect. If not, they may be honestly reporting what their subscribers report. Because the Armada (I have 3 of them on my street) have been just horrible since their introduction. Same with the Titan...
Mar 04, 2006 (9:21 pm)
Consumer Reports has received media attention/allegations for their inconsistant reporting. A few outlets have used some of their information as example, and I believe some other major TV-News reporting show made an expose on it, as well as some local news organizations. There's a reason why recently they have been underscoring their usage of the term "Predicted Reliability".
Personally, Miss Cleo had the same method of reporting peoples futures.
Some things off the top of my head I've seen people on these forums mention... CR's pick of the Honda Oddyssey for best minivan has had a total of 13 recalls. The Ridgeline also received a great reliability prediction, yet quite many media outlets (including Edmunds) have experienced many quality issues with them (In Edmunds case, 4 shot shocks in really a major issue-but how quick Edmund was to forgive them). The Civic which was just released 3 months ago has already had 2 recalls, yet CR vaulted them to BestPick while numerous other American vehicles that have been released for over a year, received a "poor" predicted reliability that in other surveys, rated tops in their segment.
JDPower uses a wider sampling of information, and not just from consumers who need to be "members" to be inducted into their exclusive group of participants, instead, it goes to just about anyone, while some of the information is taken straight off manufacturer's databases. So in retrospect, it touches more bases and uses actual data, not "predicted reliability".
#3118 of 3348 Re: Latest Consumer Reports Ratings [nvbanker]
Mar 05, 2006 (8:42 am)
They do rate the Titan as one to avoid,, but they don't rate them head to head. They put them in the large SUV category. They are rated below the Navigator & Expedition. I would like to see the types of problems that are reported. I think it would be more fair if the problems that were reported were rated as minor or major. When I read posts on the CR forum and talk to people that are owners of Honda and Toyota's there is an air of "I'm smarter and more choosey in my vehicle choices than you". If you read the Car Forum at CR, you will see most people are owners of these makes. Far more than American cars. I get the feeling that these people that CR uses for their data are the ones that wouldn't report all problems with their vehicles. They would never want to admit that their vehicles may have close to the same number of problems as a lowly Ford or GM owner may have. I mean Ford and GM owners don't have enough intelligence to make informed choices. The fact is I keep an open mind when shopping for a new car. I will look at all choices in the class that appeal to me whether it's a toyota or Ford. Most japanese car owners won't even consider the option of one of the Big Three American car makers.
#3119 of 3348 Re: Mtnman [ANT14]
Mar 05, 2006 (12:19 pm)
ANT: I heard a rumor that Ford has cancelled the Hurricane Engine project. Is that true? (requesting indulgence from the Host for this slightly off topic question... )
#3120 of 3348 Re: Latest Consumer Reports Ratings [mtnman1]
Mar 05, 2006 (12:22 pm)
I think you're exactly right mtn.... Lots of import drivers do have that aire about them. And they are often the ones who subscribe to C/R. As I said, I don't, so I guess I'm a moron. Still, I think I have chosen wisely overall in my car selections, even without their research. Imagine that. OTOH, I'm a car guy, and most people aren't, so perhaps they need anecdotal evidence and research assistance to actually make a decision.
#3121 of 3348 Re: Latest Consumer Reports Ratings [mtnman1]
Mar 05, 2006 (4:18 pm)
"was more than disheartened today while reading my April issue of Consumer Reports. It's their big yearly car ratings issue. In the used Suv's to avoid they listed the Ford Explorer and Mercury Mountaineer 2002-2005."
On my '02 Explorer--in 2 1/2 years and 45,000 miles later, I had the following issues:
tranmission solenoid bad
power window motor failed
rear-end would whine at between 55mph and 65mph. FORD WOULDN'T FIX IT.
Leather seating very poor quality - if I would have kept the car I would have had to redo the leather. Ford again, knows there was a problem here and wouldn't satisfy the owners.
Bought a Toyota. Farewell Ford!!
#3122 of 3348 Nvbanker
Mar 05, 2006 (5:44 pm)
Nope, not cancelled... Like any storm, ya never know when it's gonna strike.