Last post on Oct 31, 2011 at 2:14 PM
You are in the Ford Explorer
What is this discussion about?
Ford Explorer, Mercury Mountaineer, SUV
#2224 of 3348 Re: LOOKING BACK [02xls]
Jan 27, 2005 (3:13 pm)
Bob's not getting angry - he's just responding, as I am to the constant irrational onslaught of missles leveled against the Explorer with emotional and unfounded accusations. Bob quoted data and facts, he was responded to with no data, no facts. That gets annoying. I've owned a lot of Explorers and Mountaineers, and not only because they're good values, (note, not cheap, I buy the highest end ones they make, loaded up) which they are, but because I believe them to be the best designs on the road overall, ahead of the rest by years at a time. Allow me to elucidate, since this ISN'T the problems forum....
1991 - Explorer introduces the 4 door SUV to the world in a package that has the spare under the car, has room for 5 adults, is affordable in 4WD, with a low range, amazingly rugged for the price, but not as rough as a Jeep is. It was bigger than the Jeep, smoother, more refined, easier to operate, drive and more powerful. Better for trips, more stable. Better all around except for tough off-roading. If you want to crawl rocks, get the Jeep. It made old news of the Cherokee instantly, as well as the S-10 Blazer and took the market away permanently, (so far). As it turned out, it was a darn dependable truck, tough as nails, I still have a 94 Eddie Bauer with 140,000 miles on it with the original everything on it, trans, engine, and it all works fine having been abused terribly.
In 1995, Ford was first out with the first V-8 mid sized SUV in their Explorer. Ok, you could only get it in 2WD until 1997.
In 2002, Ford was first out with the Explorer that had independent rear suspension and a folding flat rear 3rd seat. Now, everybody has copied it. But only Toyota has put a V-8 in this class of SUV along with Ford.
Ford and Toyota are really the only two car companies who innovate their products to this level in the world. Toyota does it a little better and more consistently. They are slower though. And they cost more. That's why I buy the Fords. If Ford really do start missing the mark badly, I'll start buying Toyotas. Nobody else gets in their much, IMO.
So, Ford contracts out with about 5 or 6 subs to build the pumpkin for their independent rear suspensions on their Explorers, and buys lubricant to their spects for them. One of the subs builds a substandard pumpkin, or one of the subs sends substandard lubricant, and a large number of the Explorers experience rear-end whines or failures. It takes a long time for the Ford engineers to figure out what's going on. For a long time, the dealer personnel deny that anything is wrong, because they just don't know. Lots of them are morons, you know. When Ford finally gets it, they start replacing some of them, but some of the replacements are from the same supplier, so they have repeat failures. They have to start batching the failures and replacement failures, and identifying and sourcing and it can take a year or more to identify who is causing the problem. Then, the lawyers step in. Do we cancel the contract? Sue them? Do they settle? Meantime, we're making cars, we need differentials, we need fluids, we need more of them, because we have failures, we're now short of them, because we just quaranteened 20% of our supply, and we need our other suppliers to make up the difference, we're short cars, we have 20,000 Explorers sitting in the snow in Kentucky with no differentials in them because we're short, and in case you didn't notice, Ford isn't flush with cash at the moment, we really need to sell the trucks, it's a big seller for us.....
This isn't as easy as it looks..... If you're pissed off, go buy a Pilot. As for me, my 94 Explorer is running great, no whining. My Mountaineer just blew a transmission. My dealer fixed it in one day, gave me a Town Car to drive, no charge. It's great again, I'm very happy with Ford. What more can I ask. And the rear end is still fine in that car. I've never had one go bad yet.
#2225 of 3348 Re: LOOKING BACK [benderofbows]
Jan 27, 2005 (3:46 pm)
I am not saying this will happen to you, you seem to have a good relationship with your local dealer. I also took my 02 to the dealer while it was under warranty for them to fix an unrelated problem. I asked them to look at the rear end while it was there because I had heard about the diff problem. They, like your service advisor told me everything was fine. They told me there was no charge to check out the rear diff. and nothing was noted on my reciept. When my truck developed the obvious whine it was out of warranty and I was told for $1200.00+ they would replace it. When I questioned them about the prior visit and them supposedly checking the diff. I was informed that there was nothing noted in my records to indicate that I had a problem prior to the warranty expiring and I would be responsible for all charges. You may want to make sure that you have some documentation on this rear end check from your dealer. TO: NV-You guys are 100% correct in the fact that I cannot throw a bunch of facts and figures out there. I am only telling you about my personal situation and dealings with both Ford and multiple dealers in my area. Of course it is foolish to assume that all redesigned Explorers will develop rear diff problems however, I do believe that there is no way to know how many will and how many have and the owners do not know it. My 02 at 72K finally developed a constant growl like a bad wheel bearing it was actually the rear end on its last leg. If only a small # of these trucks are affected I still do not understand why Ford will not correct the problem and at least offer some sort of assistance to the owners of these bad apples or pumpkins. These trucks have been on the road since 01, how much time do the engineers need? Innovation is great, but if you can't get it to work what good is it?
Jan 27, 2005 (4:27 pm)
" Innovation is great, but if you can't get it to work what good is it?"
No good at all, my friend.....
#2227 of 3348 inclined cargo area
Jan 31, 2005 (6:03 am)
We are looking at an '05 XLT Sport with the V8 and 3rd row seat. The third row isn't a 'must', but it would certainly be a nice feature to have. However, the one thing we noticed was the cargo area is much more inclined when the 3rd row is folded down versus the non-3rd row model. I'm just wondering if it affects the cargo area 'usefullness' at all. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
#2228 of 3348 Re: inclined cargo area [keeferb]
Jan 31, 2005 (11:14 am)
I have an '05 XLT with the 3rd row. The 3rd seat definitely does NOT fold totally flat. It is not terrible though. You just need to be more attentive as to how you arrange things back there. We are able to go to Costco/ BJ's and still load everything with no problem. I guess it depends on your needs. If you are constantly loading a lot of small stuff back there that tends to move around alot, then it may get a little annoying. As for me, I like the versatility of being able to seat 7 when I need to (even though it does not happen very often), and being able to have alot of cargo space when I don't. I have the truck two months now and I am very happy with it.
#2229 of 3348 Re: inclined cargo area [keeferb]
Jan 31, 2005 (11:59 am)
Don't forget that besides having a flat cargo floor, the version without a third row seat also has two fairly good-sized storage compartments under the floor. I find these to be very useful for all kinds of things. For instance I have jumper cables, flashlights, first aid kit, air compressor, cargo blankets, bungee cords, rope, even a floor mounting bicycle rack, etc. all neatly tucked in these things, out of sight where the don't slide or rattle, and still have plenty of room left over.
It depends on how much stuff you want to permanently keep in your vehicle, what kind of cargo you think you will have to transport on occasion (and how often), and how many times you think you might have 6 passengers.
#2230 of 3348 Re: inclined cargo area [keeferb]
Jan 31, 2005 (7:10 pm)
I have the 3rd seat.I really didn't want it, but ended up with it. It's not much of a problem with the incline. But, BOB makes a good point. I miss the storage area for the stuff I like to carry around. I have to store it on the floor between the 2nd & 3rd seats. The couple of times I needed to use the 3rd seat, it was a major pain. There's not a right or wrong here, it just depends on what fits your lifestyle. I wish I didn't have the 3rd seat, but not because of the incline.
#2231 of 3348 Re: inclined cargo area [semooc]
Feb 01, 2005 (10:04 am)
Thanks for all the feedback. I never thought about losing the storage compartments with the 3rd row. We have an infant and 80 lb dog, so 90% of the time we just have the car seat in the second row and the dog in the back. So I wouldn't say the 3rd row is a necessity, but might be nice to have on those few occasions. It also seems like most of the V8 XLT's that I've seen usually have the 3rd row. I'd actually prefer the V6 since I commute 50 miles a day, but it seems like most people recommend the V8 if they had the choice.
#2232 of 3348 Re: inclined cargo area [keeferb]
Feb 01, 2005 (10:55 am)
Don't worry about fuel economy, it is equally bad, lol! The V8 really doesn't use that much more gas than the V6. EPA ratings are 15/20 versus 14/19, I think. Surprising I know, but I think it is because Explorers are heavy and are not aerodynamic at all, and the V8 does not have to work as hard. Actually, the argument could be made that in certain "real-world" situations such as towing or moderate acceleration, the V8 would have the same or better mileage (would not have to rev as high).
Additionally, the V8 is smoother and provides better acceleration, but the V6 is thought to be more durable.
Feb 01, 2005 (1:26 pm)
That is correct, I recommend the V8 since the V6 uses just as much gas anyways. The V8 is a better designed engine overall, and much smoother in the NVH dept. Also helps trade-in time since used car buyer's usually like the larger engine for their needs.