Last post on Oct 31, 2011 at 3:14 PM
You are in the Ford Explorer
What is this discussion about?
Ford Explorer, Mercury Mountaineer, SUV
#2209 of 3348 Re: Transmission / Rear-End Problems [02xls, aka "Mr. Sarcastic"]
Jan 26, 2005 (2:07 pm)
OK Mr. Sarcastic, see if you can follow me here. I will attempt to spell out for you what has been briefly discussed before.
It's generally agreed that only people who are strongly opinionated post messages about their vehicles online. And, people who have problems are more likely to be strongly opinionated than those who are merely satisfied. I bet for every one driver on here complaining, there are 20 more out there racking up the miles on their Explorers, happy as clams. But then, that's the story with nearly every single car on the road.
In 2004, Ford sold 340,000 Explorers. There are over a million of the new body style (which you love to trash so much) on the roads. This 340k in 2004 accounted for about 12.5% of all of Ford's sales.
Here in my state the "larger" Ford dealers sell between 250 and 1,000 total vehicles per month (on average). That means each one sells between 30 and 120 Explorers per month for a total of 360 to 1000 Explorers per year.
The industry average for miles per year on a passenger car is about 12,500 (and that's conservative!) So, figure that almost every Explorer sold in 2002 (or in 2001 as an 02 model) has about 37,500 miles on average. And, 2002 Explorers were on the lots in March of 2001! So that number is most likely conservative as well.
So, what does all this mean? How does this make sense? Here's how. Let's say the dealership in question, being described as a "larger" dealership, sells about 300 cars a month (again, on average, of course). If 12.5% of their sales were Explorers, they themselves put almost 38 of them on the road each month.
If they started really selling them in April of 2001, this one "larger" dealer could very reasonably have 800 POTENTIALLY affected '02 and '03 vehicles on the road, all of which are on average right about 37,500 miles. And according to some in this forum, these rear ends are only good for about 30k.
47 rear ends in one year, out of 800 vehicles in service just from that dealer, is less than six percent, or one in 17 vehicles. That's my main point, and a point that has been made over and over. The Ford Explorer is one of the best-selling vehicles around (for good reason). There are millions of them on the road. So, numbers like this one, that got you all sarcastic, really don't seem so big when you look at them in perspective. If we were talking about a vehicle that doesn't have so many examples on the road, that would be a different story.
And, don't forget, like I have posted earlier, I am not saying that there is no problem. I have posted before that I know Ford is investigating both the gearset and the fluid used. I just want to show that these problems are much more minor than some people in these forums make them out to be. There is no need to buy an extended warranty (if you weren't going to otherwise) on a 6% chance that something will fail. And yes, I do beleive it is a supplier problem. In fact, I think that they probably used several suppliers, and that is why the problem only exists in a small percentage of the rear ends, instead of with a large portion of the vehicles produced.
#2210 of 3348 The 6 percent problem.
Jan 26, 2005 (3:08 pm)
Very well spoken, bender. Exactly what's going on here.
#2211 of 3348 Re: Transmission / Rear-End Problems [02xls]
Jan 26, 2005 (8:57 pm)
The parts guy at the Nashville Ford dealership said that's how many had been order. Not sure if they were actually done at that dealership or by a third party mechanic. I had my second one put in by a shop that was a little closer to home.Didn't feel like giving Ford the money.I have own a number of vehicles in my 30 years of driving both 2wd and 4wd and I have never, never had to replace one rear end in any vehicle before this Ford. My father-in -law is getting a lot of mileage out of "I told you so" and I can't get back in to a GM product soon enough
Jan 26, 2005 (9:05 pm)
That's interesting math in a hypothetical situation but does little to alleviate my concern that this in fact an Explorer issue> Dealerships are not seeing the same rear end issues with this frequency from other models. If you want an eye opener look for a similar number rearend complaints at websites thatdealer with other makers. Trust me this isn't paranoia
#2215 of 3348 Re: Transmission / Rear-End Problems [benderofbows]
Jan 27, 2005 (8:02 am)
Sounds like Fuzzy Math to me. I love how you pro-oval guys try to spin this problem into some minor issue. Ford sells so many Explorers because they are less expensive than many of their competitors. They cannot provide the quality of many other makes so they drop their prices with rebates and low finance offers. You get what you pay for. Ford also sells many of these trucks in fleet programs with rental car co. and Gov't programs. I guess Ford does not mind to lose 6% of their Explorer customers by not stepping to the plate and doing something about the rear end issue. You would think if you have built something over a million times you may be able to fix an obvious problem and make it right. Guess Ford can't.
#2216 of 3348 Fact-based Response to Fuzzy Arguments
Jan 27, 2005 (9:18 am)
I love how you anti-oval guys try to spin a problem that you had into something big that affects everyone (except that in reality, it doesn't). Further, you have nothing on which to base your claims. I love debating you because you never bring any good supportive material to the discussion; just inaccurate information, unfounded claims and scare tactics. You make it too easy! Where is your proof that more than 6% of Explorers are affected? Don't have any? Aww.
My math is not fuzzy. And at least I can back up my claims. I accurately showed how the number in question (47 rear ends ordered by a large dealer in one year) is extremely low when you consider how many vehicles there are on the road, and how many were sold by that dealer.
Ford sells so many Explorers because of a combination of desirable attributes, the least of which is a low price. It's domestic competitor, the Trailblazer, also has heavy rebates. By your logic that must make General Motors poor in quality as well huh? Have you even read the Edmund's review of the Explorer? You know they picked it as "Editors Most Wanted Midsize SUV Under $35K" for 2004, right?
Ford does provide the quality of many other makes. In fact independent research organizations which study the automotive industry, such as JD Power and Consumer Reports, rate Ford as average (compared to all makes) in quality/reliability and the Explorer itself average as well. Both ratings are improving over previous generations.
They are doing something about the rear end issue. Read the TSBs. They are trying to determine the cause of the problem. Do you think they made millions of rear ends themselves, or had suppliers? Do you think they had just one supplier, or chose not to put all of their eggs in one basket? If one assembly line in one supplier had a problem, that would explain why only (roughly) six percent of vehicles over 30k miles are affected. It would also explain why it would take some time for Ford to determine the source of the problem (fluid mixture, gearset, etc).
Most importantly, the level of service (or dis-service) you get, on any issue, is going to vary from dealer to dealer. The service manager and the owner/dealer ultimately decide whether or not to fix something and at what cost to the customer. It is not Ford, Inc. who isn't stepping to the plate; it is some of the dealers. I know my dealer would replace my rear end (even after warranty) if I showed them the TSB.
Jan 27, 2005 (10:31 am)
“We just turned in our leased V6 AWD Mountaineer after 35 months/38000 miles and besides the seat track that needed to be replaced, the thing was solid as a rock… When you sell 400,000 +/- units per year on a particular platform, you're bound to have a few problems, but they are a good bang for the buck and I would have to say from reading other forums, much less troublesome than some of the other offerings in this class.” -#2020 by cubes Oct 15, 2004
“I'd also like to chime in. Our 02 V6 AWD Mountaineer has been rock solid.” - #2021 by troyben Oct 15, 2004
“So far our  Exp has been just fine, no problems whatsoever…This is our 3rd Exp and we fully intend to buy another one” - #2036 by roger341 Oct 18, 2004
“like [nvbanker], i'm big explorer fan.... it's not perfect, but it's the best overall vehicle i've ever had, as far as overall satisfaction goes.” - #2016 by explorerx4 Oct 13, 2004
“My 2003 Premier MM V-8 has 52k miles. To date no major repairs or issues.” - #1966 by tjf2000 Apr 27, 2004
“4.0 in first 02 explorer… went 65 -68k, dont remember exactly, with no problems at all just routine maintenance. I now have another 02 with the 4.0 engine is 32k and has been trouble free too.” - #1917 by dondilio Mar 31, 2004
Did I miss anybody? I'm sure I could have gone back farther and found a ton more.
Anybody else out there have over 30k and want to share experiences?