Last post on Jul 13, 2011 at 1:12 PM
You are in the Mazda Protege
What is this discussion about?
Mazda Protege5, Wagon
#7301 of 7874 Re: Nope. [iamz]
Feb 10, 2005 (3:51 pm)
“I wonder if your sunroof is aftermarket.”
Nope <laughing>, my sunroof is OEM standard equipment from Mazda, itemized on the Munroney sticker, etc.
“Maybe the sunroof was available without the side air bags though.”
Yep, there were many new 2002 P5s on the lot at the time with sunroofs, but without ABS/airbags. I wasn’t interested in the ABS/airbag cars if I could avoid them.
“I wanted the side air bags and remember that I had to buy them as a package with the sunroof.”
[Let me see if we have the original Mazda Protege5 brochure in our files. . .]
Found it! Along with an explanation for possible misunderstanding: The ABS is indeed packaged with the side air bags, _and_ this package “REQUIRES moonroof.”
As a stand-alone option, a “Power sliding-glass moonroof with interior sunshade” is available. That’s what I got.
In this 2002 Mazda Protege5 product brochure, there is no option for “ordering” ABS _or_ side air bags, separately -- they come packaged together or not at all. And if you opt for the ABS/airbags, you get a moonroof whether you want it or not.
As most of you know, this sort of “packaging” is characteristic of import cars, where one cannot order them specifying each item as desired, the way one has typically been able to do with the American makes. If you want cruise control on an import, for example, you often are forced to take a package of things, some of which you may not want.
Increasingly, cars are coming with “everything,” and there may not be any options to speak of. For example, on our ’02 Civic Si, the _only_ option, as I recall, was side airbags. Everything else is standard. I’d have passed on the power sunroof if I’d had that option, and I’d probably have passed on the ABS, too, which, on this car, is excessively aggressive. (Autocrossers often pull the fuse on the ABS on the Si to defeat it during competition.)
Hope this helps resolve the confusion.
I wonder if the original poster bought that P5, and, if he did, how he likes it so far?
#7302 of 7874 So, SEE KAUAI?
Feb 11, 2005 (7:41 am)
I was right. Try finding some facts before you smear someone's name around here, OK?
Or is your answer going to be "Nope"?
(Comfy with my Kenmore box and the factual information I post here)
#7303 of 7874 Don't get personal...
by KCRam@Edmunds HOST
Feb 11, 2005 (6:07 pm)
If you have a problem with another member, discuss it in email or contact me. Clear enough?
Host - Wagons
#7304 of 7874 Re: So, SEE KAUAI? [mdaffron]
Feb 18, 2005 (9:18 am)
[Bizarre personal attack snipped. . .]
“(Comfy with my Kenmore box and the factual information I post here)”
“Factual,” especially in this context, is not synonymous with “infallible.”
“So, SEE KAUAI? I was right.”
No. You were not.
“Nope. Side airbags were an option on my wife's 2002 Protege5, as part of a package deal with a sunroof she didn't opt for.”
(Thus initiating the “Nope” thread. . .)
The questioner came to Edmunds to ask, essentially: How can a prospective buyer know whether there are side airbags in a used P5?
At best, Daffron’s “Nope” post was ambiguous, confusing, and potentially misleading to Edmunds readers. (Indeed, the ambiguity is such that one cannot even be certain precisely what Daffron himself believes.) Daffron’s argument fails to meet reasonable standards of clarity, especially in this context, as a poster comes here seeking information about how to determine whether a used P5 has side airbags.
Such issues regularly concern used car buyers -- who need clarity, not more confusion.
If this thread were permitted to die with Meade Daffron’s “argument” standing unchallenged, I would fully expect at least half of all visitors, reading now and in the future, to leave with the false impression that all P5s with a sunroof . . . also have side airbags.
Already, right here in this very thread, at least one reader, a contributor here, has been confused.
Our P5s have not been produced for a few years, and the traffic in this Edmunds P5 Forum seems “static.” I anticipate that many of the newcomers to this group these days will be those seeking information about the purchase of used P5s.
I hope with this post to finally clear up any lingering doubts and confusion that may remain for the increasing number of future Edmunds readers who will come here to learn how Mazda Protege5 vehicles are equipped as they seek out these vehicles on the used car market.
The sunroof is NOT “packaged” with side airbags. The side airbags are part of a “package” with ABS -- not with a sunroof. The sunroof is a distinctly separate item, able to be ordered separately, unlike the ABS and side airbags, which ALWAYS come “packaged” together. The separate sunroof option is forced on the buyer wanting ABS/side airbags.
This is not merely a semantic distinction.
This is an important LOGICAL distinction.
Failure to recognize this distinction may result in a false conclusion being drawn about the presence of side airbags in the presence of a sunroof (and ABS, too, although the original poster is only concerned about the side airbags.)
I ask my readers to consider (with some assumptions), the following statements:
(1) All P5s equipped with ABS will also have side airbags. This statement is TRUE.
(2) All P5s equipped with side airbags will also have ABS. This statement is TRUE.
(3) All P5s equipped with ABS/side airbags will also have a sunroof. This statement is TRUE.
(4) All P5s _not_ equipped with a sunroof, will also _not_ have ABS/side airbags. This statement is TRUE.
(5) All P5s equipped with a sunroof will also have ABS/side airbags. This statement is FALSE!
(6) SOME P5s equipped with a sunroof will also have ABS/side airbags. This statement is TRUE.
Statement #5 is the problem here. mdaffron’s “Nope” assertion fails to adequately account for this, leaving a reader who’s trying to figure out this puzzle, perhaps to conclude erroneously that any used P5 advertised _with_ a sunroof will _also_ have side airbags (and ABS).
Any given P5 with a sunroof may or may not have the ABS/side air bags package -- the buyer will need to confirm this. While I haven’t driven an ABS/side airbag P5, I should think that confirming the presence of ABS is easy: There’s probably an ABS light on the instrument panel at startup. Moreover, one ought to test the ABS on a test-drive, which is easily done, too. Having confirmed the presence of ABS, one can then logically conclude (with some assumptions) that side airbags are also present on the vehicle in question.
Mdaffron’s “Nope” assertion fails to clarify the logical possibility that a sunroof might be present in the ABSENCE of side airbags (and ABS).
The presence of a sunroof on a Mazda Protege5 is absolutely NOT proof of the presence of ABS/side airbags.
To help correct this possible misunderstanding, “Dwryter” and I both posted to note that our P5s each have a sunroof, but do not have ABS or side airbags. Both of our cars are logically consistent with Mazda’s build strategy.
Apparently, according to the original poster, “natilus,” there may not be obvious evidence that leather-equipped P5s have side airbags, and he’s puzzled.
Potential buyers need clarity, not confusion. They need to know what they’re buying, if only so that they might negotiate price with confidence.
I hope that those who visit this Edmunds Forum, and read this thread, will now leave better informed.
To “natilus,” the original poster: That P5 you were examining with the ABS almost certainly has side airbags. Do what you need to confirm this for yourself, but assuming Mazda maintained the same build strategy throughout to the end of production, and that the relevant parts are OEM, and the bags haven’t been deployed, it seems logical to conclude that the car does have side airbags. In addition, on an unrelated note, I suggest that you test-drive a P5 on a rough stretch of road to confirm that you can live with the sports-car-harsh ride. Some folks find it too harsh. Good luck.
-Kauai (who has great respect for civility and good manners, and rather less respect for anything less.)
“I am not young enough to know everything.”
“Always do right -- this will gratify some and astonish the rest.”
Feb 18, 2005 (1:09 pm)
I am sending the editors of the Oxford English Dictionary a suggestion for a new verb: "to kauai". The definition would describe the new term as the logical exposition of an idea by which formerly misguided or cloudy thinking is dispelled; the exposition is marked not only by clarity but humour and erudition. Synonyms: "to shed light", "to elucidate".
#7307 of 7874 Re: Kauai, the verb [autonomous]
Feb 19, 2005 (6:47 am)
“The definition would describe the new term as the logical exposition of an idea by which formerly misguided or cloudy thinking is dispelled; the exposition is marked not only by clarity but humour and erudition. Synonyms: 'to shed light', 'to elucidate'."
Thank you for this, autonomous.
I appreciate your creative and inventive mind, and the good humor in your posts. Your good-natured, friendly posts are a breath of fresh air in these groups.
Thanks again, my friend.
“Fate chooses our relatives, we choose our friends.”
-Jacques Delille, 1738-1813
#7308 of 7874 Re: Kauai, the verb [kauai215]
Feb 22, 2005 (11:36 am)
Love those killer quotes, kauai!
#7309 of 7874 Aftermarket seat heaters?
Feb 23, 2005 (9:55 am)
I'd like to get them installed in my wife's P5 as a gift (those leather seats are COLD in the winter!). Any recommendations?
#7310 of 7874 re: seat heaters
Feb 23, 2005 (5:23 pm)
Hey mazdafun -
I have leather in my P5 also & wanted to be warm during these long and cold MN winters. I chose to go the autostart route -- that way the engine and the entire car are warmed up & I don't have to walk out to do it Got it installed early November & I absolutely love it! Better than seat heaters IMO. My sister also got it installed on her Accord coupe (Dad has it on his GMC truck). AstroStart is the name of the unit I have - it's the highest recommended one around here & the installation is cool (I didn't do it, just read about it) - they have a central module that everything just "plugs" into... My car was done in ~3 hours.
Anyway - just wanted to share my experience.