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MINI Cooper, Hatchback
Dec 10, 2002 (8:44 pm)
"The largest Cooper dealer (BMW) in Miami still has ten 2002 models sitting on the lot. Guess the honeymoon is over and people are recognizing this tiny machine for what it is. An ok in town runabout, begging for a Honda VTEC engine. I'm in the market, and may take a test drive, but don't see how the cuteness of this car will sway me away from the engineering/quaility and practicality of a Civic Si(also English built!). "
The local dealer's lot was overflowing with Minis too...back when they were adding mandatory accessories and generally asking too much. And considering you said 2002s, it's even more understandable. Even if the "honeymoon" was "over," you must admit the Si never had a honeymoon in the first place.
I highly suggest driving it before acting so negatively. The engine doesn't offer overwhelming low-end torque, but it isn't any worse than a VTEC in that regard. The engine still provides the car a very peppy feel. Just try it.
Dec 10, 2002 (10:50 pm)
Is one poor excuse for a sporty econo-hatch car. Ungainly ugly design, tall and looks like a minivan. The Civic Si follows the current Japanese 'Anime' car design styling of tall, chunky bodies with no sense of proportion or style. The car that started this aweful Japanese design trend in the US was the equally aweful Toyota Echo.
The current Civic is a dog of a car and not even the spiffed up Si has been able to capture positive comments from the automotive press. The car simply sucks..boring, poorly styled and has the handling of a brick. (So-Cal tuners hate this car).
The best Civic Si hatchbacks were made in the late 1980's and early 1990's. The 1992-95 Civic Si hatchback was much more desirable than the current model but was the model that started the decline of the "performance" Civic trim level.
So,I would respectufully suggest the Honda salesman to go back to the Civic forum and stop posting nonsense in the MINI forum.
#1139 of 2671 dealer prices
Dec 11, 2002 (6:20 am)
I have been to that "dealer in Miami"
and my brother also test drove a Mini there,
their prices are some of the highest around
and thats probably why they have so many
Minis sitting on the lot! By the way, Mini did
fantastic during the recent snow and ice storm
we had here, only thing that disturbed me was
I wasn't the only car with a white roof
#1140 of 2671 That's what's up ...
Dec 11, 2002 (7:51 am)
I think this is the 1140th post on this board, and looking back, I think there have been around 1139 POSITIVE posts about the MINI. All I can suggest is take the car for a drive (not on I-95 in Miami - find a fun back road to take it through its paces) and decide for yourself. The build quality of this car and feel for the road far eclipses anything Honda can put together in the same price range (this obviously excludes the S-2000). I'd say just ask any MINI owner, but we've already given you the answers many times over.
Also, does the Civic come with 3/36 free scheduled maintenance as well as the rest of the impressive warranty package in the MINI? Didn't think so.
Dec 11, 2002 (8:14 am)
Go there....they can hardly keep any in stock...strict MSRP pricing....unlike certain Miami dealerships with predatory pricing practices...and piling up stock.
#1142 of 2671 THE COOLEST CAR AT ANY PX
Dec 11, 2002 (10:03 am)
I WAN'T ONE. A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS AS I HAVENT GOTTEN MY SORRY BUT DOWN TO THE DEALER YET. HOW DOES THAT SUNROOF OPERATE. DOES THE FRONT HALF OPEN OR CAN THE WHOLE THING BE REMOVED? IS THERE REALLY ROOM FOR 2 ADULTS TO SIT IN REAR SEATS? I'VE READ MANY POSTS, AND THOUGHT I WANTED AN 'S', BUT I READ THAT THE BASE MODEL 5 SPEED IS QUICKER ON AN AUTOCROSS TRACK. WOULD THAT MEAN THE BASE MODEL IS QUICKER AND MORE FUN IN STOP AND GO DRIVING UNDER 50 MPH DRIVING ON BACK ROADS? THANKS FOR YOUR HELP, AND EVEN THOUGH THE WIFE DOESN'T THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA I AM GETTING ONE IF ALL I'VE READ RINGS TRUE DURING MY TEST DRIVE. ANY INSURANCE INFO HELPFUL AS WELL.
#1143 of 2671 Honda vs. Mini?
Dec 11, 2002 (10:33 am)
My Mini Cooper is my first non-Honda vehicle in 19 years of driving (two Civics, two Accords and a CR-V). Hondas are just about the best-built cars out there, so I can't see dissing them for quality.
But I picked the Mini this time because, as one who craves attention, I love the fun, "exclusivity" and talking to people who come up to me (like the guy in the 19 foot long Suburban at the gas station this morning) asking about the car. My Hondas were perfect, but the Mini is special.
So let's all get along!
PS I paid sticker at Bill Jacobs near Chicago, if any of you Floridians are up for a trip North.
Dec 11, 2002 (10:47 am)
I can't imagine someone cross shopping a MINI and an SI. SI is all about cheapness - the dealers discount them $3,500 below MSRP to get them off the lot and they still have 02's advertised.
At least the SI will help Honda Civics in future years with the it's #1 most stolen theft statistics - they can't give them away so I doubt they'll be a theft target.
#1145 of 2671 Questions Answered
Dec 11, 2002 (11:13 am)
The front of the moonroof is the only mobile part. The back stays there, and the rear passengers can look through it. Rear seat room is contingent on size of the people in the front seats, and where they have the seats. Its a big question of toe room as well. So depending on the size of everyone they could fit, or not. its definetly a test drive thing. Also the rear's not amazingly easy to get into or out of, kids don't care about it, but larger adults may find it irritating to do on a regular basis.
A Cooper is faster on the autocross because its lighter and because of the gearing. Depending on how you drive, you may or may not prefer an S. it has more power, especially passing power, so you won't need to downshift as much to pass at 60 or 70. Stop and go traffic is a call either way, the S will accelerate faster, but if you like shifting and running the engine up near redline, you'll probably enjoy a Cooper more.
Just get out and test drive the cars somewhere fun, its all about personal preference really.
#1146 of 2671 Cooper vs. S, rear back seat room
Dec 11, 2002 (11:40 am)
I often have two adult males in the back seat of my MINI Cooper for short trips and they fit there just fine, even 6+ footers. Now, I doubt they'd want to spend 3 hours back there but for shorter trips there really is enough room for them. Now, I am only 5'10" myself and have short legs (30" inseam) so perhaps I am an exception but I don't even have to move my seat up to sit an adult behind my driver's seat.
The Cooper is faster on a tight autocross course because it is lighter, the gearing is shorter (2nd takes you to 64MPH vs. 68MPH in the S) and the Cooper has more torque and power very, very low down due to the 10.6:1 compression ratio compared to 8.3:1 until the boost really kicks in, plus you can get the lighter 15" wheels which aren't available on a stock S. Once the S gets above 2500RPMs it takes over but in a course where you are in 1st and 2nd gear most of the time the taller gearing and lower low-end torque hurts.
With the Cooper you MUST MUST MUST downshift into 3rd or even 2nd gear to pass people unless you are already going very fast (over 90MPH for passing in 4th). The Cooper has gobs of power from 4000-7000RPMs and a decent amount at 3000RPMs but not enough to pass so if you're doing 60MPH in 5th gear you can't just floor it to pass, you must double-downshift to 3rd -- just downshifting to 4th isn't enough. The S has a flat torque curve which gives you most of the power from 2500RPM upward so it doesn't need to scream to pass. I think this makes the Cooper fun to drive as you downshift and hear the engine roar as you fly past the other car but other owners like to just stomp the gas and go and they'll prefer an S.