Last post on Sep 05, 2013 at 9:10 AM
You are in the Jaguar XJ-Series
What is this discussion about?
Jaguar XJ-Series, Sedan
#2315 of 2806 Re: Follow Up: 2004 XJR horror story [blckislandguy]
Dec 20, 2005 (3:47 pm)
I will respond to the questions raised by blckislandguy.
It seems that there may have been some confusion about my situation. I described my problems in earlier posts. Let if suffice to say that I am trying to get out of an XJR lemon, with 91 days of shop time and 34 total service visits. I have been fighting with them and negotiating for some relief. Jaguar offered me a rebate credit on my lease due to the problems, to be applied to a new lease/purchase.
Jaguar and the dealer offered me a new '05 with navigation and front park control for under invoice, plus I got about 7000 in incentives on the '05. They dealer takes my current 52,000 mile "lemon" back for $40,000, while the residual is currently about 45,000. It looks like I am taking a bath, but I am getting back $3000, and I am avoiding the cost of new tires and brakes, which are now needed. I am also out of the warranty, so I am at risk with this car. Can you see how the numbers work ???
Meanwhile, I want to avoid another situation with a high mileage car and a lease. The Select Edition warranty is one of the best, but you can only get it on a used certified or lease buy-out. You can lease a car through Jaguar Credit and elect to purchase the car at any time during the lease period. You can also purchase the Select Edition warranty for about $2500. The important fact is that you cannot buy the select edition warranty on a new car. To the best of my knowledge, it only works on a lease conversion, lease return, or dealer-sold used Jaguar.
By the way, I never said that the Select Edition 100,000 warranty was a freebie. It is also a part of the cost when buying a used Jaguar. In many cases the Select Edition is an option, and is not included in the advertised prices of late model Jaguars. FYI, I visited or called several dealers inquiring about Select Edition cars, and most quoted the Select Edition warranty as an extra cost option.
By the way, my rationale for taking the car from lease to purchase is directly targeted at obtaining a Jaguar 100,000 warranty for a high mileage car. At an average annual 23,000 miles in a Jaguar, the factory warranty is gone well before the lease term. As my current experience has shown, having an XJR without warranty coverage can be dangerous and costly.
I disagree that buying a used certified car for $60,000 or more is a more sensible choice than buying a fresh new car for $66,000. For me, it makes more sense to have a brand new car vs certified used Jaguar with 15,000 miles or more. By the way, I just looked at a used '05 with 18,000 with an asking price of 62,900. I am aware that this price may be negotiable, but how can this be sensible compared to a new one for less than $4000 more??
After my experience I cannot see taking on somebody else's used Jaguar for a few thousand less as a sensible decision. I know that a powerful rocket like an XJR can be driven pretty damn hard by a lessee, so you might be inheriting somebody else's lemon---even if it does have a warranty. Granted, I need to add in another $2500 for a Select Edition, but this is still worthwhile in my own mind.
FYI, a new '06 with a window of over 80,000 had no rebates, and even with the dealer cutting a sharp deal, it would cost about 76,000 at this time of the year when the '06 XJR are just coming in. The '05 at $66,300 seems like a deal to me.
Taxes and insurance differences are not really that different on either one.
This may not make sense for anyone else, but it works for me as a high mileage driver.
Furthermore, after having had an XJR that had its differential, drive line, subframe, rack and pinion, etc replaced I feel better breaking in a new one rather than taking pot luck on a used one.
By the way, I picked up my new car today, It is really nice. Meanwhile, the automatic door locks on my '04 were randomly clicking on and off, as I drove it to the dealer. The funny thing is that it is likely that my lemon will be cleaned up and sold as a Select Edition Jaguar---they actually can certify and resell late model Jaguars with under 54,000 miles. Imagine the lucky person that gets my old car!
#2316 of 2806 Re: Follow Up: 2004 XJR horror story [fenn]
Dec 20, 2005 (5:29 pm)
Automobile Virginity has it's virture. I applaud your decision.
#2317 of 2806 Re: Follow Up: 2004 XJR horror story [fenn]
Dec 21, 2005 (8:22 pm)
Thanks for your thoughts. I hope you enjoy your purchase.
I didn't realize that the Jag Certified lease was so malleable in how it is purchased. I'm surprised that Jag dealers offer it as an extra cost OPTION on a used vehicle. This makes it simply a gloried extended warranty. Not a select, choice, used vehicle with a good provence. My impression is that with BMW the car is certified (at a cost of $900 to the dealer PLUS all repairs he makes) or not before it is offerred for sale. As such it is either fish or fowl. (The BMWUSA web site I think only lists CPO cars.) This is a much purer and better way. IMHO Jag would have a stronger brand if it CPOed cars like BMW. But then again, Jag could do a lot of things better.
#2318 of 2806 Re: Follow Up: 2004 XJR horror story [blckislandguy]
Dec 23, 2005 (2:00 pm)
I do not mean to say that they will just sell the warranty without going through the vehicle. Any Select Edition car needs to be inspected. However, if I do this while the car is under original warranty, the costs of any needed, or suggested repairs etc will likely be done as a warranty item, and/or the cost will be a part of the fee charged.
I also did not mean to suggest that just any car will be a part of the program. My own approach may be a strategy that was suggested due to my history and relationship with the dealer. I doubt that many folks are guided in this direction, but most folks do not drive as many miles as I do
Contrary to your thoughts, Jaguar's Select Edition has been rated as the top resale/CPO program by more than one source. As a matter of fact, Intellichoice rated Jaguar as the top program, and BMW's CPO program was not even listed in the top five luxury programs, but Jaguar, Lexus, Audi, Cadillac and Volvo were.. Go figure..?
I will say that my new '05 XJR is a seemingly flawless car within the first 400 miles of use. I have not found anything to complain about. My '04 had some trim issues and fit and finish glitches that were obvious by comparison, along with some malfunctioning systems.
Proof again, that the first model year of an all new car should be avoided... until they get the kinks out.
#2319 of 2806 Re: Follow Up: 2004 XJR horror story [fenn]
Dec 24, 2005 (9:04 pm)
Good to hear that your new XJR is proving to be OK.
My comments about the Jag CPO program were aimed at the apparently descetionary nature of it: "Mr. Customer, would you like us to CPO this car and add it to the invoice or do you want it as is?" I believe that BMW doesn't offer it up that way. BMWs are either CPOed or they are not (and those that are not are usually wholesaled off the lot). My comment doesn't really denigrate the Jag CPO program as much as denigrate the Jag marketing people. I think they would have a stronger brand if the CPO was presented less as an extended warranty. I agree though that the Jag and Volvo 100,000 mile CPO warrantys are compelling.
#2320 of 2806 Happy New Year - "Happy Jaging"
Dec 31, 2005 (4:41 pm)
Just a note of well wishes to all who appreciate the special relationship we have with our Jaguar motorcars.
I must confess I have never owned an automobile, American or European, that I have enjoyed driving more. From the very first view of the Jaguar sensuous lines and classically stylish design, I anticipate the pleasurable Jaguar driving experience. While I agree that the "cats" need special pampering, it is well worth it. "Lemons" can be found in all brands. There is no substitute for good and regular preventative maintance ...... good medicine for any brand. It is amazing what a good, competent mechanic and friend can be in positively supporting the Jaguar experience.
Winter, Spring, Summer, Autumn driving my XJ Jaguar is a pure delight.
So, I wish you all a wonderful and great "Jaguar Year"... full of good safe and pleasurable motoring in what I still believe is a great Jaguar motorcar experience... truly, unlike any other !
#2321 of 2806 What do you think of the future XJ
Jan 07, 2006 (1:28 pm)
shown on page 16,"Automobile" February '06. 2009 is the proposed intro date. This new model is to answer the recent poor sales history. Bringing out a new design does, IMO, not correct their marketing strategy and problems.
#2322 of 2806 HELP! Cylinder Head Gasket Advice/'93 XJ6
Jan 22, 2006 (4:35 am)
I'm being offered a 57,000 mile '93 XJ6 in excellent condition for $1300. Owner claims the cylinder head gasket is blown.
1. I'm reasonably skilled and have done several cylinder heads (ohc) in the past - any guess on how much time it will take to R&R the cylinder head?
2. I know these warp.... are they known to crack? Where?
3. Any other precautions or advice?
#2323 of 2806 Re: Follow Up: 2004 XJR horror story [fenn]
Jan 22, 2006 (4:40 am)
I'm an ex ford service representative - first of all, if you bought the car new or under new-car warranty it likely qualifies under your state's lemon law.
Even if doesn't, Ford is incredibly litigation-averse, and a simple letter to the company president (Edsel Ford) from any attorney will guarantee prompt action and intervention.
#2324 of 2806 Re: Follow Up: 2004 XJR horror story [fullhappyfish]
Jan 22, 2006 (4:43 am)
BAH! I can't believe I typed EDSEL Ford....
William Clay is the company president of course. Freudian Slip I suppose.