Last post on Jun 09, 2012 at 11:01 PM
You are in the Mazda Protege
What is this discussion about?
Mazda Protege, Sedan
#11071 of 24043 Of course with anything there will be those
Mar 31, 2002 (11:56 am)
who take the extreme. What I meant if you take a car that is in the same class and size as the Protege and stiffened the suspension and added 16" 50 series tires you could have a car like the Protege. That's what Mazda did with the MP3. Of course the MP3 handles great. It has even larger wheels and tires than the ES with even more mods to the suspension.
A Bonneville. How absurd. I thought it was a given that we were talking small economy cars. I mean for that matter the new 745i probably does worse in the slolam than the Pro on 18's. There's nothing that can be done about that. It's an enterely different class of car.
I really don't bother with 0-60 because I don't like to beat up on my cars like that. And that's only 8 seconds... What happens after that?
How about when you're in the Protege on the highway doing 80 and someone is riding your tail?Or if you want to follow the "train" of cars doing a hundred on the interstate. It's much more important to me what happens between 3500 rpm and redline. Above the 3500 threshold the Pro started sounding and feeling strained. That's why the Pro stayed in the driveway and why we'd take the "green car" on trips. The engine liked 80mph+ speeds much more than the Pro.
As far as engineers and puking??? What about a 2.0 liter engine only putting out 130hp??? Or a Turbo 2.0 with only 170hp??? The VW or even Toyota engineers would kick the Mazda engineers out of the union for the Turbo. The 1990 Celica all trac had 200 hp out of 2.0 liters. 4 wheel drive, awesome seats, killer stereo, VERY nice car.
Variable valve timing is more reliable, more efficient, cleaner running, and less expensive over the long haul than a Turbo. The technology is proven. But then again the 2.0 still has iron block aluminum head construction. Talk about technology that should go the way of the Model T.
By the way the Model T didn't have independent suspension. BUT you might be able to take a 1987 Protege and run much quicker times if you did the same to it. It DID have the RX7 rear suspension in it. Twin Trapeziodal something....
#11072 of 24043 Lets not start this whole Civic/Protege debate again.
Mar 31, 2002 (12:10 pm)
Civic Si is a great car. The only problem with it, it's useless under 5000 RPM. To most, that's not a problem...me included. I don't minding winding out the engine but to alot of people it's too much work. Also, I've heard that the Civic Si at 60MPH turns around 4000-4500 RPM. Again, to me that would be a little buzzy.
Now as far as performance numbers, anything with about .5 sec difference for economy cars is really not a big differance at all. For example I've seen numbers from 10.1 sec all the way down to 8.5 sec for 0-60 times for a 1.8L 5spd Protege. There are just to many factors involved. I would say that a comparison test is probably the best from one magazine since all the cars are probably tested in the same day under the same conditions. But as we have stated before, 0-60 numbers are not everything. Track times are even better. There is an article in Grass Roots Motorsports on some of the new high performance compact cars. MP3 was the slowest of the bunch 0-60 and had the least horspower on the dyno but on an autocross course, it beat out alot of the cars including the new Civic Si.
I don't think if you put stiffer springs on a Corolla and slapped on some 16" tires it would handle better. Mazda's have always been better handling cars than most cars in their class. It's not something that's new.
#11073 of 24043 Variable valve timing...
Mar 31, 2002 (12:17 pm)
...is only cleaner running at low RPM's. I'm talking about the VTEC with the 2 sets of cam lobes. At higher RPM's when the VTEC switch-over takes place, clean burning goes out the window. For most, they don't drive at high RPM's too much so no big deal. In the future, it is going to be hard to maintain this sort of VTEC feature becuase the goverment is going to start testing emmisions at wide open throttle. I think now they just test at idle and at cruising speeds. There was an article in Sport Compact Car about this. A very good read.
#11074 of 24043 Here we go again!
Mar 31, 2002 (12:34 pm)
"The difference is that the Civic's engine doesn't buzz you the death at high speeds and the power is still building should you feel the need to go from 80MPH to 100MPH. Whereas the Protege's engine feels like it's done once you get to 85MPH." What a load of $#*! I drive my PRO like I did my Civic (80-100mph on the highway). Can I say something? The Civic would take forever to get up to 160km/h. The PRO? Any idiot that wants to ride my tail when I'm going 130km/h finds himself smaller and smaller in my rear view mirror. The PRO has A LOT of mid-range power. I run it at 4500RPMs for 160km/h with....(get this) an auto tranny and that 2.0 POS engine. I wonder what the 5spd can do...
I'm not here to slam the Civic (I owned one and appreciate those cars a lot). I just wanna let you die-hard Civic fans know that the PRO is:
1. better in the city (torque...yeah!)
2. still pulls very well up to 100mph
3 after that it's ALL CIVIC territory as the PRO's engine buzzes too much
The verdict? To everyone his own. But don't slam the PRO just b/c you're Civic-obsessed.
So ZZ79, what engine did you have on the PRO? 5MT or 4EAT? What year was it?
Mar 31, 2002 (12:50 pm)
Luckily I haven't been aflicted with the cold Pro phenomenon with my '99 ES...so far.
#11076 of 24043 Like Kev said...
Mar 31, 2002 (2:42 pm)
I didn't want to poke a stick in a hornet's nest with the comment about buying cars with over 100K miles on them. My point was: by that time they would be pretty well beat up inside. Dirty cloth and scratches everywhere.
I don't see buying a car just for its purformance, regardless of its condition; that means nothing to me and the majority of car buyers. The speeds you all are saying you drive are way over the speed limits in most states and I am NOT impressed by wreckless drivers bragging about how they risk their, and other people's, lives.
The fact that ZoomZoom79 works for CarMax, which gives her a sizeable break on prices, is NOT a fair comparison for those who will pay way too much buying from CarMax. She did say her $4500 Si will bring $8950, or more, on the lot -- what a ripoff!
In my estimation, ZoomZoom79 is NOT buying a car the way we bought our Pros, she bought a Road Toy she will dump as soon as it starts giving trouble and recoup her $4500 plus profit. On a scale of 1 to 10 ZoomZoom79's opinion = 0!
Mar 31, 2002 (2:48 pm)
I only drive when the conditions allow me to, not when there's traffic and bad weather.
Mar 31, 2002 (3:00 pm)
"What I meant if you take a car that is in the same class and size as the Protege and stiffened the suspension and added 16" 50 series tires you could have a car like the Protege."
No, that is NOT the way it works. A Corolla with 16" 50 series tires and stiffer suspension will not handle like a Protege. A Sunfire/Cavalier with 16" 50 series tires and stiffer suspension will not handle like a Protege. These are just a few examples. It takes more than tires and stiffer suspension calibration to make a car handle well. Do you get it now?
#11079 of 24043 Proteges and Depreciation...
Mar 31, 2002 (3:53 pm)
I have a 2000 Protege LX with manual transmission, A/C, aftermarket cassette/CD changer and keyless entry and 61,000 miles. I paid just under $ 15,000 at 0% in November of 1999.
Trade-in Value with 61,000 miles:
$ 6,818 (including EXC condition adjustment)
This very car with 300,000 miles (just for kicks)
Apparently I have hit the mileage threshold at 30K per year.
Unfortunately, when it comes to trade-in values, the dealerships pull out their evil little black book which is much lower than Edmund's trade-in values. On the other hand, Kelley Blue Book has some of the most bloated retail values in the business. My very car retails for over $ 12,000 according to them.
The moral of the story--Proteges are a lot of car for the money but should be kept for the long haul due to their rapid depreciation.
Mar 31, 2002 (5:13 pm)
Never trade if you can help it!! Sell your car online on AutoTrader.com!! It will get the most number of eyes and sell quickly at a fair price.
I had a 1998 Honda Odyssey I wanted to sell. I ran a classified ad in the local newspaper for two weeks, cost $60. Not a single call! Then I ran an ad on AutoTrader.com at $35 and "Run until it sells" checked. Included a GOOD photo of it. Most people take pictures of their cars like you see in those freebie books at the supermarket. Makes the car look like junk.
I got calls from all over the state and sold it for a very good price in 10 days. Much better than I hoped to get.
Why let a dealer lowball your car while sticking you with options you don't want? The best way to buy a car is straight out, no trade, pay cash. If you can't pay in full, then at least sell your own car and make the best deal you can. Buying a car these days is complicated enough, don't get it confused with selling.