Last post on Aug 15, 2013 at 7:54 PM
You are in the Jaguar X-Type
What is this discussion about?
Jaguar X-Type, Sedan
Aug 31, 2002 (11:25 pm)
I had learned that the X-TYPE and the F-TYPE were supposed to not share that many components. They'd share the AJ-V6 and some other pieces, but that would be it. Supercharging an X-TYPE is not all that terribly difficult (yes, I know a lot more also goes into creating "R"-cars, but the supercharger is the heart). Jaguar stopped the F-TYPE project for now (and if you had seen what was being built, you'd probably see that it was for the best), but has said that it is dedicated to creating the car when it has time. The X-TYPE R is delayed, but it will appear later. Jaguar is busy with the new XJ-Series, a light-weight XK replacement, the refreshed XK, the refreshed S-TYPE and the S-TYPE R (remember, S-TYPE R did not appear until about 3 years after the S-TYPE's debut), and the introduction of the slightly changed 2003 models to dealerships. There is also the diesel engine contract it has with PSA Peugeot-Citroen, and the aluminum technology sharing with Audi. Personnally, I cannot wait until Jaguar gets its diesel engines for Europe. Today's diesels can be better than "petrol" engines (very unlike those dreadful ticking, soot spewing "turbo diesel" Mercedes we sometimes find ourselves behind) and with gasoline prices so high in Europe, diesel is the way to go. Jaguar will really expand its market with diesels in Europe.
Sep 01, 2002 (12:20 pm)
I find it kind of humorous that you are debating this with a Jaguar insider, and lecturing me on their cycle plan.
X-type R involved a lot more than strapping on a supercharger. And too many of its go-fast bits were shared with F-type R. Like I said, you can believe what you want, but all work on it has been stopped.
"Jaguar stopped the F-TYPE project for now (and if you had seen what was being built, you'd probably see that it was for the best)"
I spent two years working on that program, and happen to think that it would have been a magnificent car. Maybe not as beautiful as the show car, but certainly attractive and a great performer. But I suppose since you saw a couple of computer generated pictures in car magazines, you know better than I do
"but has said that it is dedicated to creating the car when it has time"
Yeah, who knows, maybe for 2015MY.
"aluminum technology sharing with Audi"
We don't share our aluminum technology with Audi
#1244 of 2600 Pluskin - X Type - R
Sep 01, 2002 (12:56 pm)
The pictures I saw of the car as it looked up to the time of stoppage(these were not computer generated to my knowledge)made it look like it was a good idea to stop. The original concept car was gorgeous IMO and that was what everyone was clamoring for.(please produce it it's a winner). However, according to the article it was never intended to be produced and had to be reworked extensively to become a production model. Perhaps too extensively??
Sep 01, 2002 (6:14 pm)
I neither have the time nor the energy or the want to debate with you. This is simply my view and the information that I have gathered.
"X-type R involved a lot more than strapping on a supercharger. And too many of its go-fast bits were shared with F-type R."
Uh, I kind of acknowledged the fact that there is much more than "strapping on a supercharger" in my last post with "yes, I know a lot more also goes into creating 'R'-cars, but the supercharger is the heart". (Just incase you missed it.)
"But I suppose since you saw a couple of computer generated pictures in car magazines, you know better than I do "
I was not speaking of computer generated images, but rather actual photographs of the F-TYPE with some covering in key areas. One can still make out the overall shape and small details in areas with those pictures. You are being presumptuous by accusing me of ignorantly basing my argument on computer images which we all know are basically at the same level as concept sketches, and I do not appreciate it. Also, as Desertguy noted, the F-TYPE that was being created was substantially different from the concept car. Jaguar initially had no plans to create the car, and when it changed its mind and decided to, they found that the concept car that it was to be based off of would not do because of unsuitable interior dimensions, etc. The plan was not executed or organized properly in my opinion. Jaguar went through all kinds of ideas desperately trying to find a way to build the car, they even tried to base it off the baby Aston Martin that was abandoned because it was a rear-engine layout and the new head of Aston decided all Aston Martins should be front-engine layouts. The public believed it would be getting a production version of the concept F-TYPE, but what was being built was very different.
"Yeah, who knows, maybe for 2015MY"
Yes, if Jaguar still has a car called X-TYPE by 2015, then they will probably have a new R version of it if the R performance division is still in around and in demand. I still hold to my statements that the X-TYPE R based much off of the current X-TYPE will still arrive, but a little later than the "18 months after introduction" initial launch date. Yes, Jaguar ran into some delays, however, I have no doubt that they will create the X-TYPE R. There is a better chance that it will come out than there is for the F-TYPE, and the X-TYPE R has not been officially canceled by Jaguar. X-TYPE R is a variant of the X-TYPE, not a totally new car. Jaguar also promised that it will have a full line of R badged cars just like AMG and M. I have no doubt that it will eventually appear, X-TYPE R included.
"We don't share our aluminum technology with Audi".
I beg to differ. I have read numerous articles noting Ford/Jaguar's sharing of aluminum technology information with Volkswagen/Audi. One was specifically about the aluminum technology which Ford decided to use on lower volume cars such as Aston Martin and Jaguar, and stated that it was utilizing some of Audi's expertise in the matter. I do not know how much information-sharing went on with Audi, it is simply what the articles said.
You say that you know better, but I disagree. I will not argue with you endlessly however because we won't get anywhere, so let's just respect each other's opinions and move on. _______________________________________
I can't tell if you are trying to be sarcastic or truly are happy that Jaguar is working on diesel engines for Europe. Either way, I must say that the diesels are desperately needed by Jaguar to hold/expand market in Europe. It is good that they push introduction of the engines to a much earlier launch date - that will significantly raise sales earlier. I have many articles and reviews about the X-TYPE that say it's a wonderful car but it is held back by not having a diesel version for Europe, as many competators do and are relying heavily on them for sales. When Jaguar does introduce the engines, sales should rise sharply (kind of like gas prices). Today's diesels are very different from those old ticking, soot-spewing turbo diesel Mercedes we all see and smell on the road. They are even better than gasoline engines sometimes. I personally can't wait until they release the diesel cars, and then they'll also get back to R-cars after launching the XJ6/8 and other new cars/products, etc.
Jaguar is also thinking of slowing production at the S-TYPE's factory. It's not really a big deal, manufacturers do this all the time. Cars go through ups and downs depending on the time of year. Many people avoid the "first year" that a car is produced, and I think that with the diesels and it being the second year for the X-TYPE next year, it will reach its target number of sales in 2003. It has done very well considering the conditions. Think about it: The X-TYPE was introduced almost right around the time of the September 11th tradgedies, and Jaguar sold almost no cars for the period around that atrocious event. Then, there were too many expensive, fully loaded 3.0 litre models produced and the in-very-high-demand 2.5 litres were impossible to find. Then the quality problem came about on some early production units and the media went wild about it. It also had to get over the whole "tarted up Ford" rumors started by competators and self-proclaimed "purists" who owned a Jaguar back when it was with British Leyland, and then the global economic decline came about and the luxury car market took a direct hit. (Plus it had to get past Edmunds' reviews of gone-to-the-crusher-long-ago prototype testers which didn't help it at all.) And after all of that, the little X-TYPE - now known to be a true Jaguar, with production of 2.5's and 3.0's balanced out properly, with option packages rearranged, and the quality on all of them in perfect shape - selling 75,000+ units in its first full year of production looks great, and to top it off, it's Jaguar's best selling model and it set sales records. The predictions for the car's sales were made back when the global economy was booming, and now in the recession, the car still made record sales for Jaguar without a diesel and with many obstacles to overcome. It has done exceptionally well in its first full year. _____________________________________
Did I mention: I LOVE MY X-TYPE! I have some BIG pictures of it, but I don't have a place to upload them onto the net and then to link the photos here. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
#1247 of 2600 JAGUAR RACING - We Got Points!!!!!
Sep 02, 2002 (12:15 am)
Jaguar's F1 Racing program finally made some progress today. De la Rosa damaged his Jaguar's rear suspension at the end of the race and it looked pretty bad, but Irvine finally got some points for Jaguar. I'm really hoping that this is just the beginning for Jaguar's new racing program, as Jaguars all have a very successful racing heritage (eg: 5 Le Mans victories in a row). Honda had trouble with their cars engines overheating and catching fire; there was quite a blaze out the back of the yellow one. Ferarri still dominated with a first and second finish. I have heard they have a $450 million budget for racing. Jaguar is finally making progress though. GO JAGUAR!!!!!!
Also, a recent poll of Jaguar owners in the United Kingdom conducted by the consumer magazine Which rated Jaguar number one for Jaguar's dealer service in selling and conducting services and repairs. Percentagewise, 84% were very satisfied with the way sales were handled, and 77% were very satisfied with servicing and repairs.
Anyone else notice the Jaguar-sourced center console for the Aston Martin Vanquish? My X-TYPE shares radio and climate control buttons and screens with the Vanquish!
Sep 02, 2002 (9:06 am)
The concept car was completely infeasible. The actual F-type program (X600) was a completely different car except for a couple of design cues and the fact that it was a small sporty two seat roadster. But while it was different, that doesn't mean it was a bad car. And I don't think I've seen a single magazine picture that would give you a good sense for how the finished car would have actually looked. Just remember, the F-type cancellation had everything to do with finances and resources, and very little to do with the execution of the product.
I wasn't debating with you. Only correcting factual errors and misconceptions. I don't consider most of what we're discussing a matter of opinion, since I'm privy to what is actually going on. I appreciate that you are a big Jaguar fan, and obviously read every article you can find. I would have thought however that you would have been thrilled to discuss things directly with a Jaguar engineer, and find out some of the facts (and opinions) behind media guesswork and corporate PR. Perhaps you think I am not what I claim to be, or just don't know what I'm talking about. No problem, its your loss. I'll go back to lurking, and you can go back to posting what you read in Car & Driver.