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Jaguar X-Type
2594 messages, Last post on May 04, 2013 at 1:02 PM
You are in the Jaguar X-Type Forum.What is this discussion about? Jaguar X-Type, Sedan
#1227 of 2594 jagboyxtype by lenscap
Aug 20, 2002 (7:13 am)
A few comments:1. There is no possible way you read the article I mentioned in March. The article, which as I said was in a June 24, 2002 industry magazine, contains sales data through the end of May. It was not even written in March.
Further, Vic Doolan is quoted in the article and is mentioned as being the President of Volvo Cars NA. He was not named to that post until June 2002 (prior to that he was Executive Director of the Premier Automotive Group), again proving the recency of the article.
2. According to the article, Jaguar had been using incentives to move their cars prior to London Calling. In fact, the article mentions Jaguar's strategy of moving cars by heavy discounting as similar to the techniques used by Infiniti up until this year (Infiniti has since stopped the practice).
3. The article contained virtually no positive comments (ones you claim I left out). There were some positive notes, but most came from Mike O'Driscoll, president of Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover NA. So yes, I did leave his comments out because they are biased and not independent.
4. You question FutureBrand's quantification of brand values. They are based on three variables: its forecast of the brand's financial performance, its assessment of the role of the brand in driving profit or cash flow, and its assessment of the finacial strength and stability of the brand vs. brands in the same class.
5. I didn't want to interject my opinion on the article, but for the most part I disagree with it. I feel Jaguar had no choice but to move "downmarket" and capture younger buyers with cheaper cars. Further, I don't even feel they have gone "downmarket" since the X-Type is still $30,000+. I do disagree with BMW and Mercedes thinking of selling $20,000 cars.
So, despite your negativity toward me I for the most part agree with you. As I said in my first post, the article was controversial and would surely stir debate.
#1229 of 2594 lenscap- by jagboyxtype
Aug 21, 2002 (12:59 am)
I first viewed the article in dispute on the internet - before it reached the trade publication of which you speak. I will try and find the initial version of that article on the net, but I believe the link I have has since been severed and the article removed. Amendments are made to articles when displayed in different locations/formats: One of the last paragraphs in the "First Drive" of the Edmunds article on the X-TYPE is also located in a full-length review on the site autobytel.com and also can be found in the X-TYPE review located at womanmotorist.com, etc. The internet version of a Car&Driver X-TYPE comparison has many amendments from its initial paper printed version (changes in the actual text, not just mis-measured numbers). Again, I will try to find the version of the article I initially read which I read before I got my car - in March."2. According to the article, Jaguar had been using incentives to move their cars prior to London Calling. In fact, the article mentions Jaguar's strategy of moving cars by heavy discounting as similar to the techniques used by Infiniti up until this year (Infiniti has since stopped the practice)."
I used the "London Calling" as an example for today. That article was old as I have said. Today, the only incentives are the "London Calling" (expires September 3rd) and a good lease rate on the new 2003 S-TYPE, with the special lease rate expiring September 30th. However, at the time when I first saw the article, the only incentive was a special lease rate on 2.5 litre X-TYPEs ($349 per month for 39 months or something like that) - now over or ending at dealerships. You can go here: <http://www.autosite.com/new/grabbag/rebatet.asp> if you do not believe me. See "Jaguar".
"3. The article contained virtually no positive comments (ones you claim I left out). There were some positive notes, but most came from Mike O'Driscoll, president of Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover NA. So yes, I did leave his comments out because they are biased and not independent."
Here is what you just said. I have emphasized my perspective:
--The article contained virtually no positive comments (ones you claim I left out). There were some positive notes, but most came from Mike O'Driscoll, president of Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover NA. So yes, I did leave his comments out because they are biased and not independent.--
Yes, I do remember many of the positive comments coming from Mr. O'Driscoll, but not all of them came solely from him as you would like to make us believe. The article was meant to give the views of those who believed the X-TYPE would hurt Jaguar v. Jaguar's beliefs about the X-TYPE and what it does for Jaguar's future. It was your opinion that O'Driscoll's comments were biased, however, by leaving out those comments for readers here, you left out half of the article and skewed the information you posted here to your own liking. You posted the equivalent of a half-truth in my opinion.
"4. You question FutureBrand's quantification of brand values. They are based on three variables: its forecast of the brand's financial performance, its assessment of the role of the brand in driving profit or cash flow, and its assessment of the financial strength and stability of the brand vs. brands in the same class."
I do not question them, I stated that they were incorrect with some of their estimates. I understood how their assessments work. And with those three variables, you would think that their information would be closer to the correct answer, but like a poor marksman, they keep missing the target. As I stated before, all FutureBrand has are estimates, where as the real world data for Jaguar and the X-TYPE speaks in their favor and against FutureBrand's predictions. "[X-TYPE] sales are beginning to exceed forecasts" was one of the latest quotes from the new article I found from August 4th, along with it mentioning how residual values for Jaguars are rising where competitors are in turn declining or staying flat. Jaguar's "brand value" has been rising with having more cars on the road v. less, even though the opposite would seem to be true in that situation. Also, "Halfway through the year, Jaguar is the fastest growing brand in the United States and Western Europe. Through June, Jaguar sales in the bellwether U.S. market were up 62.1 percent over last year, easily outpacing rivals Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Lexus." That's called demand, which FutureBrand gravely miscalculated in their Jaguar predictions.
"5. I didn't want to interject my opinion on the article, but for the most part I disagree with it. I feel Jaguar had no choice but to move "downmarket" and capture younger buyers with cheaper cars. Further, I don't even feel they have gone "downmarket" since the X-Type is still $30,000+. I do disagree with BMW and Mercedes thinking of selling $20,000 cars."
No matter how rude I may seem at times (and I'm really not trying to be - you have to kind of read my latest posts in a monotone kind of way), or how annoyed we can make each other, your opinions are always welcome, even when they differ from my own (!). I don't feel that Jaguar has moved "downmarket" either, by your reasoning and for another one. Along with the X-TYPE starting at $30,000+ as you said; to "move downmarket", a company would have to move all of their offerings to a lower "class" (for lack of a better word). Jaguar, with the X-TYPE, simply expanded its coverage of the luxury/luxury-sport class by offering a car in a slightly less expensive category of that class. They didn't decide to make cars only to compete in the "economy class" or "hatchback class", which would be "moving downmarket".
As for Mercedes-Benz and BMW creating cars for anything less than the "entry-level luxury-sport" market, I don't necessarily disagree with them, yet I'm still at the "I wonder why they'd do that?" stage. They especially cause me to wonder what their market plans/predictions are as BMW has Mini for the $17,000 - 20,000 hatchback class and Mercedes-Benz is supposed to be the "higher" offerings for DaimlerChrysler, able to use Chrysler/Dodge (and Hyundai and Mitsubishi) for "lower" offerings in the teens-to-mid-$20,000 range. Premier Automotive Group has stated that Jaguar will not compete any lower than the "entry-level luxury-sport" class, as they have Volvo for that as well as for SUV's and Land Rover for SUV's etc. as well. I would think that Mercedes-Benz and BMW would try to "preserve prestige" by doing something similar and utilizing Mini and Chrysler/Dodge, Jeep, Hyundai, Mitsubishi. Remember that the BMW and Mercedes-Benz names were not deemed "prestigious enough" for the companies' ultra-luxury Rolls-Royce and Maybach level offerings - I don't see why a similar but reversed plan would not apply for below
#1230 of 2594 part II by jagboyxtype
Aug 21, 2002 (12:59 am)
the other end of the luxury market. Lexus will not go below the IS300 and ES300 offerings in the "entry-level" class as they have Toyota for that. However, Acura has with the RSX (even though they have Honda), but because of their offerings like the RSX, they are arguably considered lower on the prestige scale than Lexus and those other marques which will not create lower-than-entry-level offerings. Oh well, it's their choice and I don't really have a problem with them choosing to do so. Besides, in Europe, M-B has the little A-Class, a "micro" minivan-type vehicle below the C230 hatchback (and they're thinking of bringing the A-Class here); and Audi has the A3 hatchback.And to think that the "radical new Jaguar X-TYPE" could stir up so much commotion when all it did was complete Jaguar's saloon lineup and set Jaguar to double global sales while bringing in "the new Jag Generation" of buyers!
Best Regards,
Jagboyxtype
#1231 of 2594 Jaguar X-TYPE R by jagboyxtype
Aug 24, 2002 (6:16 am)
Well, I went hunting for fast cats today, here's what I found: an exposed, secret prototype X-TYPE R.
Pictures
1.) <http://www.sportscartesting.com/Media/cache/3/3115_596x447.jpg>
2.) <http://www.sportscartesting.com/Media/3/3111.jpg>
3.) <http://www.sportscartesting.com/Media/3/3112.jpg>
4.) <http://www.sportscartesting.com/Media/3/3113.jpg>
5.) <http://www.sportscartesting.com/Media/3/3114.jpg>
It's supercharged AJ-V6 will produce over 300 bhp.
__________________________________________
Dashboard & Center Console Material
Lately in the media, car reviewers have been saying that Audis have the leading interiors in terms of quality materials. Well, guess what! The dashboard and center console materials in the X-TYPE are supplied by Benoac (a subsidiary of ContiTech), who exclusively produces and supplies the dashboards of a unique material for the Jaguar X-TYPE and Audi. The machines which produce the dashes and consoles are called "slush machines" by the company, and they brought in two new ones just for the X-TYPE. The remaining older machines are used to make dashes/consoles for the Audi A6 and their flagship A8.
Here is the link: <http://www.contitech.de/ct/contitech/allgemein/erfolgsstories/01_10_jaguar_x_e.html>
______________________________________
Here are some very nice, high-quality pictures of the X-TYPE's debut at Geneva:
1.) <http://ultra.cto.us.edu.pl/pub/Multimedia/Pictures/Cars/Jaguar/2001.X-Type
geneva.01.jpg>
2.) <http://ultra.cto.us.edu.pl/pub/Multimedia/Pictures/Cars/Jaguar/2001.X-Type
geneva.02.jpg>
3.) <http://ultra.cto.us.edu.pl/pub/Multimedia/Pictures/Cars/Jaguar/2001.X-Type
geneva.03.jpg>
4.) <http://ultra.cto.us.edu.pl/pub/Multimedia/Pictures/Cars/Jaguar/2001.X-Type
geneva.04.jpg>
5.) <http://ultra.cto.us.edu.pl/pub/Multimedia/Pictures/Cars/Jaguar/2001.X-Type
geneva.05.jpg>
6.) <http://ultra.cto.us.edu.pl/pub/Multimedia/Pictures/Cars/Jaguar/2001.X-Type
geneva.06.jpg>
7. <http://ultra.cto.us.edu.pl/pub/Multimedia/Pictures/Cars/Jaguar/2001.X-Type
geneva.07.jpg>
8.) <http://ultra.cto.us.edu.pl/pub/Multimedia/Pictures/Cars/Jaguar/2001.X-Type
geneva.08.jpg>
_____________________________________
That's all. My X-TYPE is still doing great, too! You all will think I'm crazy, but I still love the car as much as the day I first got it - even more so now.
Best Regards,
jagboyxtype
#1232 of 2594 x-type R by pluskin
Aug 26, 2002 (4:35 am)
Sorry to break the news, but the X-type R program was cancelled earlier this year.#1233 of 2594 X Type R by rea98d
Aug 26, 2002 (6:38 pm)
Those pics seem to be nothing but a regular X-Type with bigger wheels. Granted, there could be a blower under the hood, but who's to tell. Maybe a couple of Jag engineers decided to have some fun with the auto-journalist spies, bolted a set of XJR wheels on an X-Type, and took it out in the snow for some fun. I know if I worked as a Jag engineer, that's what I'd do. Totally confuse the heck out of the car-spies.#1234 of 2594 X-TYPE R by jagboyxtype
Aug 27, 2002 (4:12 pm)
It's been delayed. Not totally cancelled.
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