Last post on Nov 19, 2012 at 5:58 PM
You are in the Chrysler 300M
What is this discussion about?
Chrysler 300M, Sedan
#23079 of 26385 300M reliability
Feb 22, 2003 (8:09 pm)
This reliability issue should be kept in perspective. A good friend of mine had nothing but trouble with his TL a few years ago & claims he will never buy another Acura. One of my trainees had a Toyota with a bad engine at under 30K miles. One of my physician friends is through with Mercedes after a bad E-class, (and now drives a Dodge Caravan which he loves). My 2001 300M has been flawless. All this means nothing more than I was lucky & my buddies were not.
Everyone buys ONE car - which is either reliable or not (i.e. if you get a good car or bad car it's 100% of your experience). The real question is the risk of getting a lemon. The difference between the 300M and the Acura is less than one defect per 100 cars (source-JD Power's random survey data). Heck, even traditionally anti-Chrysler Consumer Reports rates the 300M as "average" reliability now. The risk of getting a bad 300M may (or may not) be slightly greater than the other cars mentioned, but IMHO this is no reason to avoid a 300M. Find a good dealer & buy the car you really want.
BTW- This "lemon risk factor" why I never buy the 1st model year of a car (or 1st yr of a major redesign). Data suggest that you may be an "automotive beta-tester".
Feb 22, 2003 (8:16 pm)
This is one of those issues that has been beat to death. As a general rule though, while no company will ever make 100% perfect cars, there are some that generally produce a higher percentage, while others generally make less. For instance, in general, Toyota may be considered as making more flawless cars than Ford does, and so on.
Feb 23, 2003 (12:26 am)
Pster, you're right that your car's reliability record is unacceptable. In fact it's downright horrendous, and I think you're more than justified in being angry. It seems really weird to me that some of the M's are so reliable, and others not at all such as yours. I still remember C&Ds long term test, and they stated it was the most reliable car they had ever tested because nothing went wrong for 40K. But that doesn't help you. Anyway, what I really wanted to say was that I know someone who complained directly to Chrysler (perhaps the region manager, I'm not sure) about a repair that was needed shortly after the warranty expired, and Chrysler wrote the person a check. It won't hurt to talk to the region manager and see if you can get reimbursed for some of this. There are also lemon laws that you may qualify for. I'm very sorry for your bad experience. Although my 'M is quite reliable, after hearing your story I feel afraid to consider another. Was it a '99 (first year build)?
#23082 of 26385 jona57, blusky999, beach15 - Reliability
Feb 23, 2003 (8:16 am)
I think you are all correct. Blusky, my 300M is a 1999. I have called Chrysler - they're good listeners but basically said
"we're sorry" (the Chrysler rep also asked me if I had "purchased an extended warranty contract - DUH). If you read the Lemon Laws, it's virtually impossible to win a claim under them (its not for nothing auto companies pay for lobbyists). In a world where auto mechanics are billed at $100/hour, where parts are "removed and replaced" instead of being repaired, and where the dealer makes his money on parts and labor (typically 90%+ of total operating earnings), the costs of vehicle ownership are bound to rise. Interesting news story yesterday: GM, Ford and Chrysler are raiding the airlines for mechanics saying their auto mechanics, while still suffering from cultural stigma (i.e., "grease monkeys") are actually making "in the six figures". The union guy said they were going to get their share. This tells me the money to be made in the auto business now is on the repair side.
I'm looking at other cars, not in a rush. I am curious about one thing: I was in love with this car for 36K miles, and most of the other owners on this board appear to be very happy. My queston is: How many owners have actually achieved 75-100K miles on thier 300M without having as many repair problems as I have had?
#23083 of 26385 jona57 - beta testers
Feb 23, 2003 (8:34 am)
I think your comment about first year production owners being beta testers has some intuitive merit, although I am unaware of any actual facts or data. I have always thought that foreign car companies, especially Honda and Toyota, were more "evolutionary" in their model changes, hence their changes tended to be somewhat less radical than Detroit from year to year. Perhaps this leads to more stable and predictable error rates. We are studying six sigma practices in my business and it is becoming apparent to me that while "product, product, product" is critical, it is typically a company's inability to create and execute effective processes based on HARD DATA that distinguishes the world class companies: Stabiity, Predictability, lower Volatility. Chrylser will become world class, in my opinion, when they actually succeed in ridding themselves of their age old stigma of making cars that mechanically fail. They still have that latent reputation in the marketplace and they can't fix it by saying their warranty costs in 36K miles are down by 20% - that's an articial standard. On the customer satisfaction side, they need to belly up to the bar and do a better job of taking care of loyal customers like myself (4 Chrylser vehicles in 10 years).
Feb 23, 2003 (10:28 am)
we could combine Chrysler exterior design with Toyota or Honda build quality. Chrysler...been there done that and not going back. I now own an 03 Honda Accord EX-V6. May not be as nice to look at as a 300M but the view is better from the inside, as I am driving past the Chryslers with their hoods up by the roadside.
#23085 of 26385 Chrysler reliability
Feb 23, 2003 (11:40 am)
I probably have more experience with 300Ms than anyone on this board, having had a very early '99, and currently an '01.
Between the 2, I have driven over 125,000 miles with NO repairs. These were my first Chryslers ever, and I am currently considering a Pacifica as my 300M lease is up.
The point is...EVERY auto message board is filled with both satisfied and dissatisfied owners.
All make cars are composed of thousands of parts, some of wich will fail.
Your particular experience will vary depending on dumb luck, vehicle care, and dealer service.Two of these vriables are within your control.
#23086 of 26385 russklass - reliability
Feb 23, 2003 (11:58 am)
Russ, you've known me for 3 years...I've taken care of my 300M above and beyond, as many of the owners on this board have. My only sin for being an avid 300M owner was not buying an extended service warranty. I bet the law of averages and lost. I've not received any help from the 5* dealer or Chrysler customer service except "sorry", "tough luck" and "should have bought a long term service contract". So....that's 2 out of three leaving "dumb luck". Not my idea of how a company should treat repetitive customers who got a bad apple. I'm off my soapbox. Finished. I'll enjoy my 300M until I can find a car that my own research and experience will show is more reliable, because I can't afford to throw $30M to blind luck. I know you were one onf the first 300M buyers....any others that have acheived 60-75K+ without significant repairs (you could be at the opposite end of the dumb luck spectrum)?
#23088 of 26385 if only - shadowfax2
Feb 23, 2003 (12:33 pm)
TJ - I would be interested in knowing what you paid for the Accord EXV6, before TTL and dealer option adddons. Can you e-mail me at libre2byahoo.com? Thanks, Phil