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#4228 of 15392 demkovich re traction by scottc8 Aug 10, 2001 (4:27 pm)
Actually, on the Lincoln it's called Advance Trac & it works very well, and very unobtrusively. I live where it snows quite a bit, and never, ever, felt the car slide sideways on a slippery curve last winter (without snow tires). And it can save your bacon on a rain-soaked curve as well. I also found the TC useful when pulling away from a stop on glare ice, especially uphill. Rather than just killing the power like some cars, it seems to "feather" the throttle just like you would do yourself, except perfectly every time. With the SST auto transmission, you also have the option of starting out in 3rd gear for a little extra help getting started on ice. The LS is a very good winter car, equal to or better than any FWD I've driven.
#4229 of 15392 Engines (to slunar, #4109) by giowa Aug 10, 2001 (5:54 pm)
You brought the subject up... No, the LS8 or Jag S-type 4.0L motors are NOT smoother than the inherently smoother I-6 configuration found in the 6 cyl BMWs. Or the IS300. Read any comparison test they participate in or just about any plain review. Universal kudos for smooth, quiet power delivery. Heck, I read nothing but outstanding praise for GM's new 4.2L 270 hp SUV I-6. (Check out the 9/01 issue of Consumer Reports. SUV comparison test. They praise the I-6 engine for its "powerful and refined new Six". Check out the 0-60 stats. Their 4,660 lb GMC Envoy with 4-speed automatic went 0-60 in a mere 8.2 secs. Think what it would do for a Catera! Or an LS6!!!)   The LS8's engine is quite nice. I love mine. It is almost, if just not quite there, in comparison to the magnificent I-6.
#4230 of 15392 LS 3.9 V8 is smoother than BMW's 6 cylinders. by ronniepooh Aug 10, 2001 (6:27 pm)
Ive driven both. Multiple times. And the LS 3.9 V8 is smoother than the BMW I6. And another thing. Comparing cars classified as subcompacts by EPA (BMW 3 series) to a car classified as a Mid-sized EPA (Lincoln LS) is not a direct comparison. Neither is FWD to RWD. There is no comparison. Right Stanny?
#4231 of 15392 windwo failure by klarson1 Aug 11, 2001 (4:00 am)
lolaj42   First I heard of the dealer replacing both rear assembles. When I had the first failure they refused. again this time. And if they have a fix why did the same window fail again. I must be missing something.   Kevin
#4232 of 15392 Competition by scottc8 Aug 11, 2001 (6:03 am)
Certainly open to broad interpretation. The 3-series BMW IS the competition because it is an icon in the field of sport sedans, but it is NOT competitive with the LS due to it's small size. FWD cars are NOT competitive because of their inherently inferior handling characteristics, yet they ARE the competition because there are some really good ones and they sell. The 5-series seems to be the most direct competitor, but, as has been said countless times, a lot more money for a marginally better car (maybe). Or you can spend a little less than the LS, and get a lot less car IMHO, like a 300M or Catera. These are the competition, too. As for the 260 hp Maxima, so what? A big fish in the Camry/Accord pond.   The competition is whatever else the individual buyer is considering, for whatever reason. In my case, the toughest competitor for the LS was my (then) current car. The LS had to be good enough to get me to part with my beloved Subaru Legacy and, at the same time, more than double my car payment.   I've expressed some impatience with Lincoln, but, enough. The 300M and Catera have been on the market, mostly unchanged, a lot longer than the LS, and DC and Cadillac are at least as far out in their development schedules as Lincoln.   I'm still ecstatic over the luxury and performance I got for my money, and am optimistic about the future of the LS. Furthermore, if I were shopping for an '02 sport sedan, I'd buy the LS8. I didn't want an "upscale" Honda or Toyota last year, and still don't. And I won't compare Lincoln's current offering with other manufacturers' future plans.
#4233 of 15392 All This Stuff by stanny1 Aug 11, 2001 (6:15 am)
Aren't we all hot this morning! I didn't drive anything, not even an LS, before ordering my LS Manual. I decided the 525 or any 5 series was really not a good value and I'd heard horror stories for years on parts and service prices for BMW and something about low life on water pumps as well. As for the A6 and for Audi in general,as Steve mentioned, lack of dealers and parts prices and availability. I feel my Duratech V6 is cheap on parts and easy on availability. I do find it odd that with an installed base of millions of 2.5 and 3.0 Duratechs, more aftermarket parts are not to be found. My only conclusion is that the public does not view it as a "performance" engine. In fact, no Ford V6 seems to spell excitement. Maybe Ford is gold-plating a Dixie cup in using it in the LS? Does anyone know of an "Engineering Analysis" of the Duratech in some car mag, most likely when the Contour was introduced? Anyway I ordered my LS Manual on "blind faith", resigning myself to the only Manual, four door, RWD sedan of reasonable size outside of the BMW. AWD sounds nice but complex and heavier and in San Diego I need AWD or 4WD like a fish needs a bicycle. Since I took delivery 7/2000, I have had the "window problem" and that's it. No squeaks, rattles, beeps, or failures. Lots of 60 mph corners with 25 mph signs, four wheel drifts, and outrageous dynamic behavior which I enjoy. Sort of like "Space Mountain" on wheels.
#4234 of 15392 Competition by giowa Aug 11, 2001 (7:00 am)
scottc8's post at #4115 is quite insightful. I concur with nearly all of it.   I think the reason some of us disagree on the mission/purpose of the LS and its competitors is that some of us (e.g., myself and maybe more of the LS8 Sport and LS6 Sport manual owners) focus on the Sport Sedan aspect (i.e., the performance of the car in the critical areas of acceleration, braking, handling, & ride), while others (e.g., LS6 auto owners) focus on factors tied to the car's size, platform, price, and status (i.e., in interior room, trunk space, size, RWD/IRS, mid-$30K price, and luxury amenities).   If you focus on the former then any decent Sport Sedan, which would include RWD/FWD/AWD models, is potentially relevant. From a Sport Sedan standpoint, it doesn't (& didn't) matter to me if the 330i's or 530i's trunk is smaller than the LS's or that the rear might be a bit more cramped. If you focus on the latter, then you are quickly narrowing the scope. There just aren't too many RWD platforms as large, heavy, or capable as LS. Some like the TC/CV/GM just aren't as all-around capable while others like the 3 or 5 Series give up interior room and trunk space, while others like Lexus GS or Jag S-type cost a lot more.   Would be interesting to know the sales breakdown of the LS by LS8 Sport, LS8 base, LS6 Sport auto, LS6 base auto, and LS6 Sport manual. I think those buyers who want the sport package will view the LS's competitors a bit broader than those who didn't want the sport package. Maybe the LS6 Sport manual buyers might be the most exclusive since there aren't that many great Sport Sedans available with manual tranny in this price range?   I think the fact that the Catera and 300M have been so slow to change has been noticed by both the car-buying public and automotive press. How much do you read about either any more? Notice how slow sales beceame? And how deep the discouts are on both? That is exactly what began to happen to LS in MY 01 and will get worse in MY 02.
#4235 of 15392 Where's Jim's Replacement by jdonnee Aug 11, 2001 (7:41 am)
I've been out of town for a couple of weeks and had to go through a couple hundred postings. Has Jim's replacement been on line yet to introduce herself?   Brian, any insight to this or how involved she will be?
#4236 of 15392 klarson1 - re. Post 4114 Window Failures by lolaj42 Aug 11, 2001 (8:31 am)
If you're not a member of the LLSOC, perhaps this is yet another reason to join. If you are a member, visit the Recall Notices section of the site. There you will find a description of all the relevent issues/problems and the solution. As indicated on the LLSOC site:   TSB 01-01-02 - Window Regulator Replacement: "Calls for replacement of both regulators with the new level part so that a repeat trip for repair can be eliminated."   I would advise you to ask your dealer to provide you with a copy of this TSB, and have them read it for themselves. Not being certain when you first experienced this problem, perhaps you did not get the improved regulator when the repair was implemented. It is also possible that your dealer did not correctly obtain the improved regulator or the improved regulator was not available when the repair was done. Either way, this should no longer be the case.   However, I have recently seen a discussion on the LLSOC board indicating that there in now a nation-wide back-order on the regulators, and that FoMoCo has recently changed their policy on replacing both regulators at the same time, although no official word has been conveyed yet. I believe Brian (aka. ls1bmw0) is researching this through his contacts.   It should be noted though, that window regulator failure problem was first brought to Lincoln management's attention through reports on this board (stanny1 I believe). Dick Cupka, then Director of Lincoln Engineering, addressed this issue at LS Mania I in Irvine, CA early this year. Dick explained that the old regulators were being purged from the pipeline at that time, and that the new design was being expedited into service and the replacement part channel. Dick assured us that window regulator failures would not be a "chronic" problem with the LS. The failures being reported now SHOULD only be from early build date vehicles that have not already had TSB 01-01-02 implemented. Hope that helps.
#4237 of 15392 Competitors - Giowa, post 4110 by lolaj42 Aug 11, 2001 (8:40 am)
Not all sport sedans are created equal. I don't care what the car rags write, a subcompact is not a competitor with a mid-size vehicle. Just because they have four doors and offer performance attributes doesn't mean they're direct competitors. I'm not critisizing anyone for resurrecting this tired, old discussion, but please, at least, introduce more material to support your position, otherwise you'll have little chance of converting someone over to your view. If we continue along the same lines, I'm afraid this will degenerate into another p*ssing contest with everyone trying to get the last word in, and hard feelings all around.   Please, let's not go there.

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