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#4128 of 15392 More power by tom12253 Aug 07, 2001 (2:35 pm)
Can the V6 2002 airbox be used on the 2002 V8 and why didn't they put that same less restricted airbox on the V8 anyway? The 2002 V6 airbox, with the K&N air filter, Borla exhaust and maybe the Granatelli Motor Sports- Mass Air Flow Sensor, seems the way to go to boast the V8's horsepower and torque.   Tom
#4129 of 15392 Airbox by ls1bmw0 Aug 07, 2001 (2:37 pm)
is the same airbox for both the V-6 and the V-8.
#4130 of 15392 More power? by scottc8 Aug 07, 2001 (3:13 pm)
Like giowa, passing on two-lanes is my biggest concern. I've owned at least two cars much faster than the LS8 from a standing start ('64 GTO & '68 442) but don't think either of them had much on the LS in terms of passing punch from 60 mph. Could be faulty memory, could be gearing, probably some of both. The gearing in the LS is perfectly matched to the torque characteristics of the V8 for the kind of driving I do.   Truthfully, this car has all the power I need. If I pass a semi from 60 mph and leave plenty of room, the car is doing 100 by the time I'm back in my lane. With, say, 50 hp more, would I be doing 110? 120? Would it matter? Are there times now when I don't feel it's safe to pass, but would with that extra power? Very doubtful.   Having said all that, would I like more power? Yes, please.
#4131 of 15392 More Power? by slunar Aug 07, 2001 (3:39 pm)
We are living in a very interesting time. When you make the conversion from the old gross horespower #'s of the 1960's to the current SAE net HP, I belive that the average car on the road has more HP than the average car in the 1960's. Torque may be a slightly different story. A lot of those revered 1960's muscle cars are not even as fast in a straight line as our memories think they are. An for every super high performance muscle car on the road in the 60's there were several hundered clunkers.   As for me, I really don't care what the HP and torque #'s are. I don't even car what the 0-60 #'s are as I rarely do a flat out 0-60 timed run (:-. I also don't want a car with a 300 or greater HP rating as many insurance companies will jack up the policy prices for those high HP cars. What matters to me it the grunt that the car has in rolling acceleration. In the case of my LS-8 the acceleration in the 60 - 80 range is great, I'm very satisfied. In the case of 10 - 40, 20 - 50 or anyting similar it just doesn't feel that it has the omph that it should. Could be the torque converter, could be the trannie ratios or could be the engine's torque curve? In these situations the LS-8 feels slower than other lower rated HP cars. The lack of performance is reflected by the somewhat anemic 0-60 #'s for the LS, especially with the 3.31 rear end. To close, your question (Brian) almost seems to pose "which would you rather have, good handling or fast acceleration". My reply is, why can't we have both?
#4132 of 15392 More HP by nosho Aug 07, 2001 (3:45 pm)
The V8 isn't really hampered by inadequate HP/torgue, it's hampered by a less that ideal transmission. It appears the latest flash build permits a 0-60 of 7.2 seconds. But changing the 1st gear to 4.40 (but you can't just change 1st because of the transmission design) would yield a 0-60 time of 6.5 seconds. Ofcourse 10% more torque/hp would be welcomed I'm sure.   The real loser here is the V6 (manual). It appears the only hope for the V6 is a supercharger but that doesn't seem likey, so it will fade away.
#4133 of 15392 Are We Really Willing To Settle For Adequate? by giowa Aug 07, 2001 (4:02 pm)
I can never figure out why so many posters here are willing to accept the LS's acceleration performance as is, as if merely being adequate in acceleration is good enough, acceptable, or, as expressed by some, to be desired. When I think of "adequate" words like "mediocre" or "average" also come immediately to mind. Did I buy a serious sport sedan (my '00 LS8 Sport) with an MSRP of $39,400 for mediocre acceleration? No, because it wasn't at the time when compared to other relevant cars. Will I buy another? Not if it continues to lag and I can buy more for less or the same for less.   Why don't we settle for "adequate handling"? "Adequate braking"? "Adequate steering"? "Adequate safety"? Do we really need more than "adequate" in any of these other areas? If not, then why choose the LS? If all we want is pure "adequateness" (is there such a word?), then shouldn't we all be driving either a Buick LeSabre or Ford Crown Vic?   I'm willing to bet that the nearly uniform press consensus on the new '02 Altima SE 3.5L 240 hp manual tranny will be that she is more than adequate in key areas like acceleration, handling, steering, braking, safety equipment, etc. Not to mention value! Sure, as a FWDer she won't achieve pantheonic handling status (at least not with us RWD afficionados), but here fully independent sport suspension will ensure she is more than adequate in the handling department. And she'll likely will generate some good numbers. (I use the Altima for comparative purposes only. If a financially weak and attempting-to-recover-in-the-marketplace Nissan can seriously upgrade this lowly platform, what is Lincoln's excuse with the LS? Blew all their money on stock buyback? Firestone/Explorer fiasco? Warranty payments? SUV & truck development?)   I think one reason so many are willing to sell the LS short (i.e., expect less than she should be capable of) and defend its inadequacies in the area of acceleration is cognitive dissonance. We bought one. We paid a lot. We don't want to acknowledge its shortcomings. And since she shines in other critical areas like handling, steering, braking, etc. we are willing to pooh-pooh the one critical area she is falling behind in. But I say damn the groupthink, advocate to make the LS better today, tomorrow, and in the future!!!
#4134 of 15392 Please Help Me by cdnpinhead Aug 07, 2001 (4:12 pm)
Giowa is making more sense the longer I listen to him.   Maybe it's the Arizona water.
#4135 of 15392 V6M by stanny1 Aug 07, 2001 (5:00 pm)
The Manual V6 does need redemption, and as Nosho suggests, it may become a loser - a car without justification. It needs 3 things: a little more hp meaning mainly VVT; a deeper rear ratio with LSD; and an overdrive tranny so it doesn't rev as high in cruise like it does now (75mph=3000rpm). I know the little V6 can handle the rpm but why? Toyota just built a new five speed for the IS300, but it has an .85:1 fifth - hardly an overdrive. It still has a 3.7+ rear with LSD. It will be interesting to see if the Maxima has a Nissan-built six-speed or they buy the Getrag. Anyway, the Manual LS team has a challenge to make the car "world-class". It's their term - now they have to live up to it.
#4136 of 15392 Actually..... by ls1bmw0 Aug 07, 2001 (5:44 pm)
my question was rhetorical in nature. It isn't a matter of choosing between one thing and another. It also isn't a matter of "not selling the LS short".   If the LS came with 500 hp we would all be whooping it up and saying how great it is. But if the next year some other manufacturer uped the ante to 520 hp, all of a sudden we would be stating that the car needed more power. Just pointing out the obvious groupthink. No matter how much power the car has (any car doesn't matter), if some other car in the same class gets more next year, we feel deprived and cheated. Not making excuses for the LS, just stating some observations.
#4137 of 15392 re Actually by scottc8 Aug 07, 2001 (6:11 pm)
that's human nature, and especially the nature of car nuts. And who could have forseen todays HP race 20 years ago? One of the car mags' columnists, I forget who, recently wrote something like, "forget the good old days, when it comes to affordable cars that perform, THESE are the good old days." Good, healthy competition, and I'm confident Lincoln will step up to the plate.   And, to clarify my last post, I'm much more than "satisfied" with the substantially greater than "adequate" performance of the current V8. And the only way my Goat could get 27 mpg on the highway is if it were idling in neutral while being towed.   These are great times to be a car nut.

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