Last post on Apr 30, 2012 at 7:10 PM
You are in the Buick Rainier
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Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy, Buick Rainier, GMC Envoy XL, Isuzu Ascender, Oldsmobile Bravada, SUV
#9150 of 18329 Car & Driver Comparison Review with Envoy
Dec 12, 2002 (12:40 pm)
Anyone else read the latest January 2003 Car & Driver of mid-size luxury SUV's? The test included (in order of place ranking): 8- GMC Envoy XL SLT 4wd, 7- Land Rover Discovery SE, 5- Lincoln Aviator, 5- Volvo XC90 T6, 4- BMW X5 3.0i, 3- Acura MDX, 2- Lexus GX470, and 1- 2004 Volkswagon Touareg.
Basically, when compared to it's competitors of just a slightly higher or equal price range, the Envoy did not score well at all. Its main high points were: Bargain-basement price, very cool looks, DOHC in-line six-cylinder. But, the low points centered on: Blowzy handling, early-Hyundai interior.
The worst points were clearly the overtly soft, springy suspension, and the very cheap, dime-store interior, as said in their words. The handling was clearly the worst, and the ride spongy and "trucky" (that one got me too?). In addition, the interior was befitting of a much cheaper, much lower quality car from many decades ago, and was not at all impressing. It was also said that the engine, while a standout when the vehicle is tested alone, is quite lackluster when put up against such awesome competition.
It was the cheapest vehicle in the group, but was clearly visible as such. All I can say, is that it lost even behind an ancient Land Rover Discovery, with it's old Buick engine, and off-road suspension, and meriting its own share of negative comments.
It's a great read, if you don't have a subscription, you should go pick it up....even if it doesn't make you happy to read...
#9151 of 18329 Envoy Rear Hatch Troubles
Dec 12, 2002 (12:50 pm)
I took my 2003 Envoy to the shop today, after my rear hatch and rear window stopped opening all of the way. The plastic trim at the top (with neon brake light)had come unhindged. GM seems to have redesigned this piece and the associated hardware.
They all have brand new part numbers and the old part numbers have been discountinued.
The parts are on order and nobody can give me a clear time frame of when they will arrive.
So much for loading up with big Xmas packages or taking the dog for a ride!
#9152 of 18329 Rear deflector accessory from GM by tblazed
Dec 12, 2002 (1:09 pm)
If you do an advanced search on rear deflector you'll see it's been discussed at length here a while back. I put my two cents in on the subject, so I recommend doing the search. I have no regrets in my application of the rear air deflector, but will admit it's more of a cosmetic accessory than anything else. If your interested in looking at some pictures of it installed go to my little site at http://users2.ev1.net/~giddens_john/ and I even have the Deflector Install Sheet in the pics section. I believe it's had some impact on clearing the rear window in rainy conditions. Keeping the rear area clean is one thing it doesn't do, mainly because it's channeling the air down onto the rear area I suspect. If you have any other questions let me know.
Dec 12, 2002 (1:31 pm)
Anybody here lift there Trailblazer? If so, any links to pictures or companies with lift kits? I saw one a while back about Belle(something).
#9154 of 18329 Car & Driver Comparison, unexplained problems caused by RF
Dec 12, 2002 (2:18 pm)
Well imagine that- a "trucky" feel in a SUV built on a full truck frame! For up to twice the price I paid for my TB I would certainly hope there would be something more to those high priced fancy SUVs mentioned.
As far as unexplained problems caused by RF, yep that's possible (anything is) but that's exactly why GM would test these vehicles in a high RF environment- to prevent catastrophic failure or weird glitches. I have had none of the strange unexplainable electrical problems described here, transmitting in my TrailBlazer or otherwise. Getting blamed for a problem: that's why I did a no holes-no mods radio install. I can remove everything in about 5 minutes "just in case". Oh, and that antenna mount stuck to my window? That's for my "scanning receiver" I use on an occasional trip. In case anyone wonders.
#9155 of 18329 Sexist GAP apology / There's still 25% that are not included...
Dec 12, 2002 (2:34 pm)
Okay, I admit it was politically incorrect to make the statement about the "putting on the makeup while driving" and my apologies to those who may have been offended. But I've missed more than my share of lights from sitting behind "SOMEONE" who was too busy "primping themselves" in the mirror to pay attention to what's going on around them.
Regarding the GAP insurance... It may be included on 75% of leases from dealer finance companies like Ford Red Carpet and GMAC, but it's not automically included by all. GeCAP and some other banks/finance companies (the OTHER 25%) sell it as an add on. (it SHOULD be included in all leases IMHO) We just looked at a lease an 03 Isuzu Ascender and the GAP insur. was NOT included in the deal. The Cost: $300 extra. I'm an advocate FOR leasing... I've leased my last 4 cars and like our beloved CFP, I've seen the benefits of having a new car every 2-3 yrs...
The whole point wasn't about the GAP to begin with -- it was to point out that paying a large CAP reduction COULD be a bad idea...
#9156 of 18329 Tblazed: We're on the same page
Dec 12, 2002 (2:38 pm)
exercising a little caution when modifying a new car will never hurt you.
From one Radio Man to another
#9157 of 18329 Car & Driver Comparo
Dec 12, 2002 (2:53 pm)
The "winner" won't be on sale here for almost a year. Car & Driver hates SUV's in general. The Envoy should never have been in the test, but they wanted a chance to bash it because it was Motor Trend's SUV of the year last year, and they hate MT more than SUV's. If you notice the scoring box, you will see that the Envoy outscored the Discovery in a number of areas. However, please also note that the final point totals were purely subjective as admitted by C&D. I like the "mouse fur" on the sides of the seats next to the console as it prevents squeaking!" How many of the vehicles that scored better can pull my 5000#+ boat? Of the ones who were rated with an equal or better tow capacity than the Envoy, only one, possibly two (I don't have the magazine in front of me) even had hitch receivers! The ones C&D liked were all car based. Suprise, suprise. The Envoy is a truck, so no wonder it rides "truckish"!!!! For my needs, the Envoy still tops anything on that list. Note that they also semi-trashed the Volvo, which won the 2003 MT SUV of the year award. But heck, that's what makes America great. We can all have our own opinions and buy what we want. If my Envoy was gone tomorrow, I would go buy another just like it.
#9158 of 18329 Car and Driver winners
Dec 12, 2002 (3:37 pm)
Amazing how I looked at most of those SUVs on C&D's winners list before I bought the Envoy... and I had voted #1 BMW X5, and #2 Acura MDX, and #3 GMC Envoy... the VW and Lexus editions hadn't been introduced when I bought the Envoy in July 2002. The cheapest X5 was over $50K new (and no discount from MSRP), and the MDX was $38K new (get on a waiting list and pay MSRP). None of those on the list had as much leg room as I needed (and I'm only 6')... especially the Discovery. The side bolsters on the drivers seat in the X5 are so tall, it's worse than a sports car to get in and out of. With the $2500 rebate at the time, the Envoy SLT was $8K less expensive than either of the other 2, and both of the others will probably depreciate $10K in the next year. Obviously the Envoy was the best buy, and will continue to be for the 2-3 years that I own it. Though the interior of the Envoy is not as plush as I'd like, I'd have to move up to a G500 to achieve that. It certainly has as many bells and whistles as the X5 and MDX. I've owned 51 vehicles, sold new and used cars for 3 years, and was in purchasing the rest of my career. I guess I just don't know what to compare to make value judgements
#9159 of 18329 C&D Comparo
Dec 12, 2002 (3:47 pm)
The C&D tst definitely favors cars. The Envoy really didn't do to bad. It didn't even have a limited slip for off road use. Their price was on the high side also, and with discounts you can probably pick one up for at least $5000 less than the next cheapest model.
As to the VW, what a gross, overweight PIG! It's smaller than the Envoy, yet weighs more than a full size Tahoe! Plus it gets the fuel mileage of a full size 4X4 pickup. Oh boy! The Germans stuffed way to many pastries in this puppy. Alert the FDA, we aren't the only ones with an obesity problem!