Last post on Dec 20, 2011 at 8:53 AM
You are in the Isuzu Trooper
What is this discussion about?
Isuzu Ascender, Isuzu Trooper, SUV
Your Community Leader is paisan.
#1406 of 3299 declining quality of Hondas and Toyotas
Jan 31, 2002 (6:12 am)
I am still a big proponent of Toyota and Honda vehicles, having owned a rock-solid '91 Camry (never should have sold it) and driven an '89 CRX Si that lasted 170k miles. If buying a new or late-model used vehicle today, I would give strong consideration to both brands. But I totally agree with paisan's post #1381. It's hard for an average consumer to prove, but my perception is that Toyota and Honda vehicles have fallen off in two major areas:
1) Initial quality - For example, the 1992-1996 Camry is widely regarded in the automotive press to be built better, with higher-quality materials, than the new model that replaced it in '97. The '92-'96 Camry is much closer to the same-year Lexus ES300 than the '97-'01 Camry.
2) Long-term quality/reliability - Over the long run, I don't think the current Toyotas and Hondas are holding up as well as their mid '80s to mid '90s brethren. My perception is that there more problems are popping up with the newer vehicles than on the earlier vehicles.
I agree with paisan on the reason why this has happened: Honda and Toyota realized they could cut a few corners and produce vehicles of lower quality, but still gain market share from other brands, especially the American brands.
Like fiveharpers, my preference is to identify and purchase vehicles such as the Trooper that provide high quality/long-term reliability at a lower initial cost (i.e. better value) than the Hondas and Toyotas of the world. Several Nissans fit this bill, as do some of the Subarus (though they've gotten rather pricey in the last 3-4 years.).
When it comes time to replace our 98 Trooper with a minivan, I have my eye on the first-generation Honda Odyssey/Isuzu Oasis. Much cheaper, and from what I can tell, much better quality than the current-generation Honda Odyssey.
Jan 31, 2002 (6:17 am)
Mark me down as another person who has heard plenty about this problem via the internet in the past couple years. It was shocking and disappointing to hear. The worst part is that Toyota seems to deny there is a design problem. This is not a total shock, though. A company like Toyota, which in my opinion has an even better reputation for quality than Honda, cannot afford to admit something like 'hey, the 3.0L V6 that's in lots of our vehicles has had sludge problems for the last 10 model years.'
They should admit this, but most companies in their shoes probably would not.
Is this problem just with the 3.0L V6 that's gone into the Camry and Sienna (and others?), or is it exhibited in other engines too?
Jan 31, 2002 (6:29 am)
I believe hyundai is on it's way up as far as quality. Of all the people who have bought in the past 3-5 years I've heard little complaints about them and IMHO the XG300/350 has quite solid build quality. If I were going to buy a commuter car today, it would almost definitely be a low end hyundai. The price/performance is there.
Jan 31, 2002 (7:13 am)
Aren't some Toyota engines GM's? I thought I read something about that somewhere? I don't know if it is the sludge'rs in question, but maybe there is a correlation?
#1410 of 3299 Hyundai
Jan 31, 2002 (7:22 am)
I too felt that Hyundai was making big strides in improving the quality of their vehicles...then I read a recent article about numerous engine failures in the Santa Fe SUVs.
Hopefully they will stand behind their warranty and fix the problems, unlike Toyota is apparently doing with this sludge deal.
Jan 31, 2002 (8:05 am)
Agree with paisan - Hyundai quality is really improving. I am positive on several of their vehicles: XG350, Santa Fe, Sonata, and Elantra. The Elantra GT 5-door is a TREMENDOUS value - $13k base price for a lot of equipment and 140hp). Great warranty, low price, plus improving quality = good choice.
If we buy a new vehicle in the next couple years I will be considering Hyundai. I also will probably consider the new Kia Sedona minivan. Sounds like a great package for the money.
The Santa Fe engine issues concerns me, though this is the first I've heard of it. Hyundai is now putting the Santa Fe's 2.7L V6 in the Sonata but that's a new change for MY 2002, IIRC.
Jan 31, 2002 (8:07 am)
If Hyundai brings over the Terracan, I'll definitely be buying that.
#1413 of 3299 Rattle Front Windshield
Jan 31, 2002 (10:51 am)
I have had this annoying rattle/tapping in the front windshield for over a year on my 2000 Trooper Ltd. It sounds like metal being tapped against the front windshield. It is effected by the amount of wind, since I hear it more when I passing a truck or the faster I go. It only occurs when the temperature is lower then 45 degrees and at speeds over 60MPH. This makes me think it's something rubber (modling around windshield) which gets harder in the cold and begins to tap. This does not occur when the temperature is over 45 degrees.
It actually sounds like metal tapping against the outside windshield. I have had it back to dealer at least 3 times. They have never been able to reproduce the sound which drives me crazy since I can typically produce the sound on demand when the conditions are right. I have tried to take matters into my own hands by adding adhesive to the front windshield outside molding thinking that's where the tap was coming from. This did not correct the problem. I have checked the hood, the side panels, just about everything I could think of. Nothing seems to work and I cant find anything loose. I checked the brake lines that run against the fire wall and they are tight. I checked any wires handing underneath the hood and underneath the car and they are all tight.
The sound always takes me back to the front windshield..!
On my last visit to the dealership for a State Inspection/Oil Change ect, the best they could tell me is that Isuzu has reported that there is a "spot weld" problem in the front pillars with some of the 2000 Troopers and that there was no reported fix. That can be the cause of my sound. Sounds like a heap of bullshit to me.
#1414 of 3299 Fuel line Recall
Jan 31, 2002 (11:01 am)
Did you have the fuel line recall done? There were some reports that in cold weather the fuel line was tapping against the firewall. Also could it be something loose under the dash? Someone on here had a screw under the dash loose that sound like a metal tapping. The weld thing does sound likea crock.
#1415 of 3299 quality over the past decade
Jan 31, 2002 (11:06 am)
My gut feeling on the overall decline in reliability of all vehicles over the past six years is the enormous amount of electronics, sensors and computers within the vehicles of today. So many more points of failure. The transmissions have so much going on inside depending on sensors and computers that a glitch somewhere may lead to all kinds of real damage. The other theory I have is when the economy was so good that the car manufacturers felt new cars would sell fast and consistently, so they could cut corners to produce better profits instead of better products.