Last post on Apr 15, 2002 at 4:02 AM
You are in the Pickups - Archived Discussions
What is this discussion about?
Nissan Frontier, Ford Ranger, Toyota Tacoma, Dodge Dakota, Mazda B-Series Pickup
#140 of 579 Clarity
Jan 04, 2001 (8:38 am)
When I talk about Consumer Reports, I'm only referring to their reliability rankings, which is generally what I am debating when it comes to vehicles. Their testing methods and recommendations are asinine, to say the least. For example, like Madhatr880 stated, the tacoma is rated poorly in performance tests like braking, handling and ride comfort (it's a truck with a suspension designed for traversing rocks and assorted things that cars are not intended to go over), but then they turn around and say three positive things about it--it's peppy, has good ergonomics, and is extremely reliable. Two of those reasons is enough for me to recommend it, but Consumer Reports base their views on how well a vehicle coddles its passengers and so forth.
J.D. Powers, on the other hand, sampled over 28,000 owners to get their reliability rankings. In the Presidential race, it takes only 1500 respondents to get +/- 3% accuracy on 6-8 candidates. 28,000 owners is more than enough to get an accurate picture on around 125-150 model vehicles.
Gooba, most U.S. built military equipment like aircraft (F-15), tanks (M-1), subs (Ohio Class) and troops (Seals, Marine Recon., 82nd Airborne), are far superior to anything China, Russia, North Korea, or Iraq can field. To say that the equipment must be maintained is superfluous. All mechanical/human equipment require maintenance.
But, when it comes to off-road vehicles, specifically 4x4 small-party vehicles, the Landcruiser is the superior 4x4 when compared to the Hummer and the Land Rover. As I stated, the Hummer is a great vehicle for being shot at as it overs good protection from assault rifle fire. It also possesses great ground clearance and can go over just about any obstacle. But if I had to be dropped in the middle of nowhere, and given the choice of the three vehicles above, I'd take the Landcruiser in a heartbeat. My life would be more important to me than my support of AM General.
Madhatr880, the only recall issued for 1993 Toyota Trucks (according to NHTSA.com) was a "INTERIOR SYSTEMS:ACTIVE SEAT AND SHOULDER BELTS AND BELT ANCHOR," which affected 3,655 vehicles. The 1993 T100 had the 3.0L V-6, not the 3.4L V-6 that came out in 1995. This is not to say that your uncle's engine didn't have a recall on it. I have tried several recall sites, and haven't found anything yet (alldata.com and toyota), but I will keep looking. Maybe this is part of that conspiracy, which Steve234 was referring to.
#141 of 579 a quick mention
Jan 04, 2001 (10:39 am)
The LC is OK for most military use, but the reliability factor of military vehicles is not comparable. I was raised in the military and served 18 years. I doubt that there is any military that is more willing to let 18 year olds get out and tear up equipment as ours. If properly cared for, it is great. Our military does have a tendency to get more complex in gear than sometimes works out. Anyone that has driven a Gamma Goat understands.
I never said that there is a conspiracy, only practical differences that keep records from being easily comparable. The lack of a recall on the head gasket is a good example. This is why the J D Powers and CR evaluations are not much good. Information based on limited data is not always reliable. Look at the Orange Bowl. The coaches poll and the writers poll had Miami #2. The BCS point system had FSU as #2. Then the odds makers had FSU favored by over 10 points against OU. FSU did not even score a single point. I have dealt with the media and government for a long time. You can make the statistics say just about anything, just pick and choose which information to base it on.
Jan 04, 2001 (11:03 am)
The complexity and vast array of problems that a vehicle can encounter don't even remotely relate to a poll. apples to orangutangs (pardon my sp)
There's also a huge difference on people's opinions about what constitutes reliability. It's a far cry from "who did you vote for".
J.D. Powers might be able to identify a major and far-reaching problem in a particular model. But, beyond that it's unreliable.
#143 of 579 Toyota Business Practices
Jan 04, 2001 (11:18 am)
From what I've seen, Toyota only issues recalls for government mandated safety issues.
They use terms, such as special service campaign, to deal with defective parts (like the head gasket problem).
They also tend not to use the TSB system. I assume they have some other way for service departments to communicate with each other.
Ford goes the other route, which is why the numbers aren't comparable. As far as I know, there isn't any public source for Toyota's internal information.
But, don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that Toyotas are unreliable or that Toyota doesn't often go out of their way to fix a problem and make the customer happy or that Toyota is practicing unfair business policies.
I'm just saying that Toyota banks on reliability and charges a premium, which Toyota buyers are happy to pay. The public disclosure of these problems would tarnish their reputation and affect their bottom line (as it would for all manufacturers). It's just completely silly and naive to say that "Well, it's a Toyota, so it will never break."
I find it somewhat comical (not for the owner but the responses) when someone posts a problem with a Toyota and they get responses that state "Well, that shouldn't happen." You don't see responses like that about other makes.
Jan 04, 2001 (3:01 pm)
I posted a week or so ago about an otc stock called hrct,I said rather than spend $3000 on a charger invest in this stock,if you had listened you doubled your money by now,you would have $6000.
#145 of 579 And the smart remarks
Jan 04, 2001 (3:32 pm)
from the Toyota boys, should have known. I'm sure it would be a safe bet that the majority of you Toyota Tacoma owners have only seen a gravel road... LOL.
Yeah, and another dumb move by another Toyota Tacoma fan... go OVER the object with your diff, real smart(tacomasrock), you can tell who offroads and who doesn't, and its not the Toyota crowd.
I dented my bumper because I was using my truck has a truck not a race truck, not a yuppie look at me machine, a truck, something you Toyota boys don't understand. By the way, take a look at a Ranger bumper, then take a look at a Tacoma bumper. I know I faired much better with the heavier steel of the ranger's bumper. I am however having a hard time trying to find a good used one in a junk-yard. Seems as though the stepside Ranger bumpers are different than the regular box bumpers.. I may have to buy a new one.. OUCH 300 bucks!
#146 of 579 The End of "Objectiveness"
Jan 04, 2001 (7:41 pm)
Well, if you take away my Consumer Reports and J.D. Powers statistical pool, then you don't leave me much discourse. I guess now the only argument which remains is do I go with the F-150 or the Silverado?
Steve234, I only mentioned "conspiracy" in passing. I actually thought your previous comments held a lot of truth. It is hard (maybe impossible) to find recall information on certain Toyotas.
Cthompson, I did find the phrase "special service campaign" when looking for the Toyota head gasket recall, but as there was no other information attached to it, I dismissed it. I think alldata.com was the site where I saw that.
I realize that statistics can be manipulated for almost any purpose, but without Consumer Reports and similar unbiased or un-bribed firms, we really don't have ANY numbers that we can discuss, much less manipulate. And if we have no reliable, OBJECTIVE means of debating and arguing the dependability of vehicles other than each other's personal experiences, these topics for me are going to get pretty boring.
I know some of the posters like to rattle on and on about how well they've fared or how horrible their decisions were, but until I see undisputable proof, I'm am left feeling suspicious, to say the least.
Am I alone here on this?
#147 of 579 If I had listened to Consumer Reports a few
Jan 04, 2001 (8:03 pm)
years ago...I would have owned a Packard Bell computer....a real work of art. I've seen their reviews on computers, a/c units, freezers and I got to say....I wouldn't buy another issue ever again. But I will admit....to the totally uninformed, CR may be a good place to start.
Jan 04, 2001 (8:03 pm)
The opinions of the J.D. Powers surveys and Consumer Reports seem to have much greater significance when they say something favorable about Ford or Chevy. Otherwise I guess they're unreliable.
#149 of 579 The only solution
Jan 05, 2001 (7:00 am)
In our lives we are barraged by information, reliable and not. We therefore must make decisions based on what we know, what we feel and what we need. We will occassionally take a few hard lumps. How we react to the bad experiences is the key. I have never met a chevy that did not give me grief, but many people have loved them. This does not make GM good or bad. It and all other vehicles are mechnaical devices that may fail. Too often, it is a matter of luck.